Djonis says: "Essentially, and contrary to a common belief that Plato’s Atlantis may have been somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean, a recent study shows that Plato's island of Atlantis was in the Mediterranean Sea and just few kilometers north of the island of Santorini."
This is rubbish. Plato, in Timaeus, explicitly says that Atlantis was a power that "came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean." He distinguishes the Atlantic Ocean, which he refers to as "the real sea," and "the true ocean," from the Mediterranean Sea, which he describes as "the sea which is within the Straits of Heracles," and as being "only a harbor, having a narrow entrance."
So the only way that someone can claim that the "island of Atlantis" was inside the Mediterranean Sea is to claim that "The Straits of Heracles" was not what referring to what we now call the Straits of Gibraltar, but some other strait within the Mediterranean Sea. There is absolutely no evidence in support of such a notion.
Also, the plain of Atlantis, as described by Plato, was much bigger than the Cyclades Plateau ever was. Its dimensions were said to be 2000 by 3000 stadia, or 230 miles by 340 miles (No, it is not controversial that 1 mile = 8.8 Greek stadia). Other scholars have tried to argue that all of the numbers in Plato's dialogues were off by a factor of 10. The problem with this hypothesis is that if the measurements of length were off by a factor of 10, so should all of the other numbers, including how long ago Atlantis supposedly existed. But Djonis maintains that his "Atlantis" sank when Plato said it did - about 9000 years before his time. To suggest that Plato got the time measurements right but the length measurements wrong is absurd.
Djonis also makes the egregious error of conflating Athens with Atlantis at the end of his article. He says: "Poetically once more, he compared these small islets to the 'bones of the wasted body' of the 'country' that once was there," with a quote that follows. But this quote is actually referring to not Atlantis, but the ancient Athens that existed contemporaneously with Atlantis and was supposedly destroyed in the same cataclysm.
Here is the context of the quote: "Even the remnant of Attica which now exists may compare with any region in the world for the variety and excellence of its fruits and the suitableness of its pastures to every sort of animal, which proves what I am saying; but in those days the country was fair as now and yielded far more abundant produce. How shall I establish my words? and what part of it can be truly called a remnant of the land that then was? The whole country is only a long promontory extending far into the sea away from the rest of the continent, while the surrounding basin of the sea is everywhere deep in the neighbourhood of the shore. Many great deluges have taken place during the nine thousand years, for that is the number of years which have elapsed since the time of which I am speaking; and during all this time and through so many changes, there has never been any considerable accumulation of the soil coming down from the mountains, as in other places, but the earth has fallen away all round and sunk out of sight. The consequence is, that in comparison of what then was, there are remaining only the bones of the wasted body, as they may be called, as in the case of small islands, all the richer and softer parts of the soil having fallen away, and the mere skeleton of the land being left."
Clearly, Plato is referring to ancient Athens, which he calls Attica, in this passage, and not Atlantis.
While this is just a single mistake, it is one that demonstrates that the author has a superficial understanding of Plato's dialogues, whether in English or the original Greek.
This recent evaluation of Plato's text revealed that simple errors and flawed interpretations by early translators led many researchers in the past to look for Atlantis in all the wrong places. Consequently, unlike all past “discoveries,” including recent ones that led to more speculation rather than real evidence, for the first time, there is a tangible site where all the physical characteristics perfectly match Plato’s account.
This is so stupid it beggars belief. Here is a person who cannot understand the basic facts about the text he is reading, making the amateurish mistake of conflating Athens and Atlantis...and he is bold enough to suggest that there have been translation errors? No, no. The errors are in the author's interpretation and understanding of the dialogues, not in the translations. The scholars who translated these works from Greek to English were first class scholars. This is just a rhetorical trick that the author of the article is using to make his point. Shameful.
Djonis' article and book have done a tremendous disservice to Atlantis research.
The Sphinx is thought to predate the Great Pyramid by 3000 to 4000 years. The Sphinx shows signs that it went through a massive Flood.
The peoples we consider as being Ancient Egyptians (about the time of construction of the Great Pyramid) have references in their records to the "First Time" or a civilization more advanced than they.
"Civilization One" and "Before the Pyramids". - Christopher Knight and Alan Butler. There is some overlap in the content, but I recommend reading both books in that order. "Before the Pyramids" has the authors claiming the architect who created the pattern for the Great Pyramid and the 2 lesser pyramids had to have visited Northern England to learn about that pattern. The pattern is the same as the 3 stars in the Belt of Orion, where the Pharaohs spent their afterlife. The pattern could not be determined in Egypt. {I need to check the title of the first book}
The location of Atlantis has kept scholars busy for decades and they are no closer now than they began their search.
Civilization has not been one of progress. Between centuries of progress have been numerous dark ages. Everyone knows about the Dark Ages that engulfed Europe following the collapse of the Western Roman Empire. A dark age engulfed the Greece and the Aegean world following the Trojan War in which the Greeks forgot how to read and write. Mesopotamia underwent a dark age between 2200 and 2500BC when it languished through a 300 year drought. Greece's loss of literacy presents one of the problems with understanding Atlantis.
There were several Pillar's of Hercules, the most misleading is the Strait of Gibraltar, a relative newcomer to the list. By misleading, I mean that forced researchers to head into the Atlantic Ocean. Another one is on an island west of Santorini. The Hellespont was another P of H. There was another P of H situated that Malta could have been Atlantis. A Mediterranean Sea with substantially less water would have enlarged Malta and allowed other near by areas to become islands.
An often overlooked part of the story is the war between Atlantis and Athens. Would there be a pretext for war if Atlantis was located for example in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean? I think not. The Atlanteans were supposed to have fielded a massive fleet and army of a combined strength of 1.2 million men. To me, the logistics moves the location into the Mediterranean Sea area. Malta, the surrounding islands and part of Libya becomes a likely candidate. Malta has some submerged large structures, another plus.
Most of my information comes from the book below.
"Meet Me In Atlantis: My Obsessive Quest To Find The Sunken City". - Mark Adams. In his book, Adams interviews several scientists, each having a different prospective location for Atlantis. Adams does not actually search for the city.
I am going to make a couple other comments as replies to other posters to end my comments here.
You talk like you know me. You don't. Yes, bones do disintegrate rapidly in wet climates like this one. But bones are still found. Remember how the bones of a certain serial killer were found months later? Some evidence would occur. Also, Sasquatch is reported in the eastern part of the state. That's dry country. So, great explorer, I still say evidence would be found. It hasn't. If it happens in my lifetime I'll say "oops!".
The book of Josephus goes into great detail on the Tower of Babel. He writes that it took a man over a year to walk around the base. If a man fell during the construction it was expected but if a brick fell everyone mourned.
I found a dead deer just about 40 yards from my front door. In three days there wasn't one bone left or piece of flesh or skin. All gone in three days. But you expect to come across sasquatch bones on the corner of a street in the city you never leave. Arm chair explorers, gee they get the job done. It's nice that your entire investment in discovery can be done on your chair in front of a computer screen. Your the man. rev.
Brilliant article on the most ancient documentation of veneration of the feminine principle within European cultures. There is no doubt that the theology and practice continued to be passed down through the millennia on different levels.
I'm intrigued that so many books of Magick are now popping up, I really don't think the Elders would allow too many to be out in the open in the first place.
Can you imagine what would happen if mankind really could make magick work for them, it would be Kaos, this world would plummet back to the dark ages.
Even though I do believe their are books out their, I think they are well Hidden from mankind because it's not time for Real Magick to come back.
It is like here in the Western Cape, South Africa, which was also a Dutch and then British colony. It was Dutch from 1652 until 1795, and again from 1803 until 1805. So, longer than in New York area. One can for instance compare the influences of two places. The USA and South African have also overall had similar histories.
Yes I agree we got the def of Civilization a little mixed up. I am sure they weren't all the same 'Nation' but had the same understanding of technology, whatever that technology happened to be.
And thats where the mystery begins. What was their technology? It sure wasn't electricity as we understand it today? Seems like things were different then.
Many of the structures are based on things like Golden Ratio and Sacred Geometry, which makes one think that maybe their technology was of the Earth. They worshiped the earth, they used the energy of the earth. They harnessed nature to do their biding. THEY WERE TRULY ADVANCED...and intuned with the nature around them. How exactly they accomplished some of the feats (Pyramids etc) remains mystery. But definite seems like pyramid was somehow harnessing the energy of the earth. For what? whooooo knowwwss
I dont think so. Meteor impacts 13000 years ago started the initial wave of disasters along with a 1000 years in huge drops in global temperature than followed by rapid warming causing huge global floods. Basically a 1000 years of Ash, earthquakes and disaster followed by HUGE HUGE FLOODS (NOHAS FLOOD).
Here you can navigate quickly through all comments made in any article sorted by date/time.
Djonis says: "Essentially, and contrary to a common belief that Plato’s Atlantis may have been somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean, a recent study shows that Plato's island of Atlantis was in the Mediterranean Sea and just few kilometers north of the island of Santorini."
This is rubbish. Plato, in Timaeus, explicitly says that Atlantis was a power that "came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean." He distinguishes the Atlantic Ocean, which he refers to as "the real sea," and "the true ocean," from the Mediterranean Sea, which he describes as "the sea which is within the Straits of Heracles," and as being "only a harbor, having a narrow entrance."
So the only way that someone can claim that the "island of Atlantis" was inside the Mediterranean Sea is to claim that "The Straits of Heracles" was not what referring to what we now call the Straits of Gibraltar, but some other strait within the Mediterranean Sea. There is absolutely no evidence in support of such a notion.
Also, the plain of Atlantis, as described by Plato, was much bigger than the Cyclades Plateau ever was. Its dimensions were said to be 2000 by 3000 stadia, or 230 miles by 340 miles (No, it is not controversial that 1 mile = 8.8 Greek stadia). Other scholars have tried to argue that all of the numbers in Plato's dialogues were off by a factor of 10. The problem with this hypothesis is that if the measurements of length were off by a factor of 10, so should all of the other numbers, including how long ago Atlantis supposedly existed. But Djonis maintains that his "Atlantis" sank when Plato said it did - about 9000 years before his time. To suggest that Plato got the time measurements right but the length measurements wrong is absurd.
Djonis also makes the egregious error of conflating Athens with Atlantis at the end of his article. He says: "Poetically once more, he compared these small islets to the 'bones of the wasted body' of the 'country' that once was there," with a quote that follows. But this quote is actually referring to not Atlantis, but the ancient Athens that existed contemporaneously with Atlantis and was supposedly destroyed in the same cataclysm.
Here is the context of the quote: "Even the remnant of Attica which now exists may compare with any region in the world for the variety and excellence of its fruits and the suitableness of its pastures to every sort of animal, which proves what I am saying; but in those days the country was fair as now and yielded far more abundant produce. How shall I establish my words? and what part of it can be truly called a remnant of the land that then was? The whole country is only a long promontory extending far into the sea away from the rest of the continent, while the surrounding basin of the sea is everywhere deep in the neighbourhood of the shore. Many great deluges have taken place during the nine thousand years, for that is the number of years which have elapsed since the time of which I am speaking; and during all this time and through so many changes, there has never been any considerable accumulation of the soil coming down from the mountains, as in other places, but the earth has fallen away all round and sunk out of sight. The consequence is, that in comparison of what then was, there are remaining only the bones of the wasted body, as they may be called, as in the case of small islands, all the richer and softer parts of the soil having fallen away, and the mere skeleton of the land being left."
Clearly, Plato is referring to ancient Athens, which he calls Attica, in this passage, and not Atlantis.
While this is just a single mistake, it is one that demonstrates that the author has a superficial understanding of Plato's dialogues, whether in English or the original Greek.
This recent evaluation of Plato's text revealed that simple errors and flawed interpretations by early translators led many researchers in the past to look for Atlantis in all the wrong places. Consequently, unlike all past “discoveries,” including recent ones that led to more speculation rather than real evidence, for the first time, there is a tangible site where all the physical characteristics perfectly match Plato’s account.
This is so stupid it beggars belief. Here is a person who cannot understand the basic facts about the text he is reading, making the amateurish mistake of conflating Athens and Atlantis...and he is bold enough to suggest that there have been translation errors? No, no. The errors are in the author's interpretation and understanding of the dialogues, not in the translations. The scholars who translated these works from Greek to English were first class scholars. This is just a rhetorical trick that the author of the article is using to make his point. Shameful.
Djonis' article and book have done a tremendous disservice to Atlantis research.
The Sphinx is thought to predate the Great Pyramid by 3000 to 4000 years. The Sphinx shows signs that it went through a massive Flood.
The peoples we consider as being Ancient Egyptians (about the time of construction of the Great Pyramid) have references in their records to the "First Time" or a civilization more advanced than they.
"Civilization One" and "Before the Pyramids". - Christopher Knight and Alan Butler. There is some overlap in the content, but I recommend reading both books in that order. "Before the Pyramids" has the authors claiming the architect who created the pattern for the Great Pyramid and the 2 lesser pyramids had to have visited Northern England to learn about that pattern. The pattern is the same as the 3 stars in the Belt of Orion, where the Pharaohs spent their afterlife. The pattern could not be determined in Egypt. {I need to check the title of the first book}
The location of Atlantis has kept scholars busy for decades and they are no closer now than they began their search.
Civilization has not been one of progress. Between centuries of progress have been numerous dark ages. Everyone knows about the Dark Ages that engulfed Europe following the collapse of the Western Roman Empire. A dark age engulfed the Greece and the Aegean world following the Trojan War in which the Greeks forgot how to read and write. Mesopotamia underwent a dark age between 2200 and 2500BC when it languished through a 300 year drought. Greece's loss of literacy presents one of the problems with understanding Atlantis.
There were several Pillar's of Hercules, the most misleading is the Strait of Gibraltar, a relative newcomer to the list. By misleading, I mean that forced researchers to head into the Atlantic Ocean. Another one is on an island west of Santorini. The Hellespont was another P of H. There was another P of H situated that Malta could have been Atlantis. A Mediterranean Sea with substantially less water would have enlarged Malta and allowed other near by areas to become islands.
An often overlooked part of the story is the war between Atlantis and Athens. Would there be a pretext for war if Atlantis was located for example in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean? I think not. The Atlanteans were supposed to have fielded a massive fleet and army of a combined strength of 1.2 million men. To me, the logistics moves the location into the Mediterranean Sea area. Malta, the surrounding islands and part of Libya becomes a likely candidate. Malta has some submerged large structures, another plus.
Most of my information comes from the book below.
"Meet Me In Atlantis: My Obsessive Quest To Find The Sunken City". - Mark Adams. In his book, Adams interviews several scientists, each having a different prospective location for Atlantis. Adams does not actually search for the city.
I am going to make a couple other comments as replies to other posters to end my comments here.
You talk like you know me. You don't. Yes, bones do disintegrate rapidly in wet climates like this one. But bones are still found. Remember how the bones of a certain serial killer were found months later? Some evidence would occur. Also, Sasquatch is reported in the eastern part of the state. That's dry country. So, great explorer, I still say evidence would be found. It hasn't. If it happens in my lifetime I'll say "oops!".
If it were a die, then it would have been worn on the balls.
The book of Josephus goes into great detail on the Tower of Babel. He writes that it took a man over a year to walk around the base. If a man fell during the construction it was expected but if a brick fell everyone mourned.
I found a dead deer just about 40 yards from my front door. In three days there wasn't one bone left or piece of flesh or skin. All gone in three days. But you expect to come across sasquatch bones on the corner of a street in the city you never leave. Arm chair explorers, gee they get the job done. It's nice that your entire investment in discovery can be done on your chair in front of a computer screen. Your the man. rev.
Brilliant article on the most ancient documentation of veneration of the feminine principle within European cultures. There is no doubt that the theology and practice continued to be passed down through the millennia on different levels.
Google for excavations at Pattanam, 8km north of Kodungallur, separated by a new channel of the Periyar river.
Explain yourself more, what have been misunderstood exactly ?
What do you think you know thats others dont ?
The author of this article has completely misunderstood Plato, or has intentionally twisted his words.
I'm intrigued that so many books of Magick are now popping up, I really don't think the Elders would allow too many to be out in the open in the first place.
Can you imagine what would happen if mankind really could make magick work for them, it would be Kaos, this world would plummet back to the dark ages.
Even though I do believe their are books out their, I think they are well Hidden from mankind because it's not time for Real Magick to come back.
I really enjoy reading about discoveries , it's so many mysteries behind the past.
It is said that if the only alcohol one drinks is a teaspoon of brandy a day, it's very healthy.
It is like here in the Western Cape, South Africa, which was also a Dutch and then British colony. It was Dutch from 1652 until 1795, and again from 1803 until 1805. So, longer than in New York area. One can for instance compare the influences of two places. The USA and South African have also overall had similar histories.
There is some wealthy man who wants/can put some funding in an underwater expedition?
This could rewrite our acknowledged history.
Just to put that in the face of the mainstream historian, i would do this if i had the money lol.
Yes I agree we got the def of Civilization a little mixed up. I am sure they weren't all the same 'Nation' but had the same understanding of technology, whatever that technology happened to be.
And thats where the mystery begins. What was their technology? It sure wasn't electricity as we understand it today? Seems like things were different then.
Many of the structures are based on things like Golden Ratio and Sacred Geometry, which makes one think that maybe their technology was of the Earth. They worshiped the earth, they used the energy of the earth. They harnessed nature to do their biding. THEY WERE TRULY ADVANCED...and intuned with the nature around them. How exactly they accomplished some of the feats (Pyramids etc) remains mystery. But definite seems like pyramid was somehow harnessing the energy of the earth. For what? whooooo knowwwss
But the intial meteor impacts were in North America from what I have found and read.
I'm completely convinced some global disaster hit life on earth big time. In my head that's a given certainty.
I dont think so. Meteor impacts 13000 years ago started the initial wave of disasters along with a 1000 years in huge drops in global temperature than followed by rapid warming causing huge global floods. Basically a 1000 years of Ash, earthquakes and disaster followed by HUGE HUGE FLOODS (NOHAS FLOOD).
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