All I have too say about The Saviour is what Christ told Ponitus Pilate upon hearing from the enraged crowd demanding Christ be Crucified claiming to be The Son of God; Pilate demanded too know if it were true, Jesus told him "My Kingdom is not of this World", and so with those Words spoken by Christ tells me Jesus came not from Egypt for Jesus' Kingdom, Jesus' Home is not of this World.
Cleopatra was dead by the Time Jesus was born in Bethlehem Ptolemy Dynasty was gone. Oh an a side note in 1995-1998, I watched a Scholarly Documentary Series Mysteries of The Bible; one of the segments dealt with The Final Stand against Rome Josephus apparently was a witness too this event anyway three different Jewish Historians and Academics compared Josephus to that as an Used Car Salesman the truly bad kind of car dealer and actually stated one can't take Josephus Word for Truth.
Hey I'm only sharing what the Jewish Historians pointed out in Mysteries of The Bible Series if anyone's interested they are all on ytube even bits of The Book of Enoch.
So this is all I wished to share with Everybody and so until next time, Everyone, Goodbye!
As it is true the British Museum has kept the Elgin Marbles in a protected and preserved state, the Parthenon Marbles still belong to the Greek people. I think they should be returned, but a plan for its conservation and preservation should be submitted by the Greek governmennt.
To me it’s a no brainer. These marbles must be returned to their place of origin. It’s not about winners and losers and spoils, it’s about property that’s been removed and needs to be returned. The Scots had the same problem with the British over the Stone of Scone.
Whether these artifacts were looted seems a matter of opinion, but the British Museum has done a very good job preserving and allowing the general public to view them.
As for royal-boot-licking, it seems Yanks of all stripes admire our royal family, unless of course you are in the Meghan Markle camp; indeed, at various times the Septics have had their own hereditary clans ruling them: The Roosevelts, Kennedy’s, and more recently the Bush brain trust.
Then again even with genocide on their hands, the Yank has always made sure their various museums abound with “Native-American” artifacts.
I agree we cannot insert our lexicon , or our ‘feelings’ into past actions , or figure past historical figure’s actions . There can, and by rights , be made concillatory gestures that may heal wrongful things done , and so , encourage a more peaceful world environment . The person may or may not have had the ‘ freedom’ to take the marbles ; since the occurrence , the consus has always been , they did not . “ Be that as it may “ . My suggestion to copy the originals by both parties , saving the originals in the proper environment – such as a museum could provide – is also logical , even relatively inexpensive , and both parties save face , but gain equally , and in the universal hope for peace ; recognition as being fair , and equitable . Lastly , whenever we speak of ‘ Freedom ‘ we miss the aspect of what ‘Liberty’ is , & what ‘freedom ‘ is not . ‘ Freedom’ indicates the ability to move about , but with sanction(s) . ‘Liberty’ , is without limitations of sanction(s) .. except those Sanctions as implied by Laws , agreed upon by a body of people ; the majority of which agree that siad Laws are beneficial to a majority . My belief is akin to what the Holy Spirit is to a supreme being’s ability to interact with His Creations
; His , and our connection with that entity . Hence , in a way , ‘Liberty’ Is The Oil , of Freedom(s) . Unless Liberty is an acknowledged given , ‘ Freedom ‘will always be subjectative to the whims of those who desire rule over others , Liberty having been ignored – a current movement that endangers the general state of peace throut the entire world .
One shouldn't judged people for what they did in other times...
We're not as free to do things, as they were.
We'll probably never understand their level of freedom either. Freedom is something that we've lost a lot off in the last century alone...
Be that as it may...
The person who took the Marbles were free to do so, and at least they still exist...
Perhaps it was the best thing for them. Britain still a much better place for such objects to be in than to be in many of the places where such objects came from...
Such cultural heritage should be kept where they'll be save...
They cannot be replaced if they're lost...
Before returning anything to any place [this] , the safety and continued extence of the objects in question, should be considered above any returning of items to any place, doesn't matter the quantity of whining that may come out of such a place...
It's always nice to read about new & develping ancient Native American cultures; bravo. But that ceramic statue accompaning the above article labled as a ‘Shaman’; shouldn't it be ‘Shawoman’? It's because of the apparent breast on the figure. And is this same statue an example of Decapitation Art of the Cupisnque/Chavin culture(s)? It appears to be kneeling but I see nothing of the lower leg.
Anything that's heavy that has anything to do with any type of site like a temple or a sacred place dedicated to some God or something shouldn't be removed to begin with, and definitely should be replaced be . it honestly has to do with the amount of weight the structure has on what's in the ground underneath it. it's shape it has to do with energy, how the energy moves, and how it moves through the water underground, around whatever materials may be present that it flows around . the weight from the structure on top of the conductive materials (crystal,granite usually but not exclusively) what increases the size of the energy field, or the Torus around whatever conductive materials are in deposited in the ground there. If something or things are moved too much or taking away too much the sky basically falls the trees get smaller everything is smaller and may cause things like earthquakes and landslides and other strange things like the heat from the sun, causing fires. I guess I'm going to have to try to write all this out and explain to you and give and show you like physically how this whole ancient system of temples and sacred spots actually worked to benefit everyone.
As we've seen in recent Middle Eastern conflicts, some areas of the world are not 'healthy' for historical artifacts. I side with relocating ALL antiquities to countries where they have the best chance of surviving intact!
I'm seeing the same destructive powers at work in the USA at present with idiots tearing down history. You can't rewrite history BUT you can learn from it!
It's all about the history and heritage of a people in a country. In the two countries you mentioned, early man has a strong presence. There is an incredible amount of history. Yes, they want to recover their history, but it's history that was taken from them. Not purchased or freely given.
I would encourage all who have not done so to read the “The Elgin Marbles” by the late Christopher Hitchens before taking a position this emotional, contentious issue.
I have seen and admired the Parthenon marbles at the British museum many times. They are beautiful art. From what has been reported, the Ottomans, who at the time ruled Greece allowed these national Greek treasures to be ripped from the Parthenon and taken away by the British. Whether Lord Elgin had a bill of sale or not, the Ottomans were the ones to let these marbles leave Greece. Therefore since they controlled everything at the time this event happened, they bear full responsibility for their leaving Greece. Since the Ottoman Empire no longer exists, we need to ask who inherited the Ottoman legacy, and that of course is current day Turkey. Of course as is common practise the Turks toatally deny being responsible for this calamity, just like they deny all the atrocities commited by the Turks under the guise of the Ottomans. The Turks are responsible because the compensation paid to purchase these marbles entered the coffres of the Ottomans, which then was taken over and benefited modern day Turkey. The British at the time legally purchased these marbles, otherwise they could never have been able to ship them to London. But these days Greeks see London as a low lying fruit compared with the Turks. So. the debate goes on...
Were’nt the locals tering the place apart to put the marble ‘to better use’ building houses, walls, etc. at the time? or is that just a myth? but if so, they were saved, not pillaged
Here you can navigate quickly through all comments made in any article sorted by date/time.
Hi All,
All I have too say about The Saviour is what Christ told Ponitus Pilate upon hearing from the enraged crowd demanding Christ be Crucified claiming to be The Son of God; Pilate demanded too know if it were true, Jesus told him "My Kingdom is not of this World", and so with those Words spoken by Christ tells me Jesus came not from Egypt for Jesus' Kingdom, Jesus' Home is not of this World.
Cleopatra was dead by the Time Jesus was born in Bethlehem Ptolemy Dynasty was gone. Oh an a side note in 1995-1998, I watched a Scholarly Documentary Series Mysteries of The Bible; one of the segments dealt with The Final Stand against Rome Josephus apparently was a witness too this event anyway three different Jewish Historians and Academics compared Josephus to that as an Used Car Salesman the truly bad kind of car dealer and actually stated one can't take Josephus Word for Truth.
Hey I'm only sharing what the Jewish Historians pointed out in Mysteries of The Bible Series if anyone's interested they are all on ytube even bits of The Book of Enoch.
So this is all I wished to share with Everybody and so until next time, Everyone, Goodbye!
As it is true the British Museum has kept the Elgin Marbles in a protected and preserved state, the Parthenon Marbles still belong to the Greek people. I think they should be returned, but a plan for its conservation and preservation should be submitted by the Greek governmennt.
To me it’s a no brainer. These marbles must be returned to their place of origin. It’s not about winners and losers and spoils, it’s about property that’s been removed and needs to be returned. The Scots had the same problem with the British over the Stone of Scone.
Whether these artifacts were looted seems a matter of opinion, but the British Museum has done a very good job preserving and allowing the general public to view them.
As for royal-boot-licking, it seems Yanks of all stripes admire our royal family, unless of course you are in the Meghan Markle camp; indeed, at various times the Septics have had their own hereditary clans ruling them: The Roosevelts, Kennedy’s, and more recently the Bush brain trust.
Then again even with genocide on their hands, the Yank has always made sure their various museums abound with “Native-American” artifacts.
I agree we cannot insert our lexicon , or our ‘feelings’ into past actions , or figure past historical figure’s actions . There can, and by rights , be made concillatory gestures that may heal wrongful things done , and so , encourage a more peaceful world environment . The person may or may not have had the ‘ freedom’ to take the marbles ; since the occurrence , the consus has always been , they did not . “ Be that as it may “ . My suggestion to copy the originals by both parties , saving the originals in the proper environment – such as a museum could provide – is also logical , even relatively inexpensive , and both parties save face , but gain equally , and in the universal hope for peace ; recognition as being fair , and equitable . Lastly , whenever we speak of ‘ Freedom ‘ we miss the aspect of what ‘Liberty’ is , & what ‘freedom ‘ is not . ‘ Freedom’ indicates the ability to move about , but with sanction(s) . ‘Liberty’ , is without limitations of sanction(s) .. except those Sanctions as implied by Laws , agreed upon by a body of people ; the majority of which agree that siad Laws are beneficial to a majority . My belief is akin to what the Holy Spirit is to a supreme being’s ability to interact with His Creations
; His , and our connection with that entity . Hence , in a way , ‘Liberty’ Is The Oil , of Freedom(s) . Unless Liberty is an acknowledged given , ‘ Freedom ‘will always be subjectative to the whims of those who desire rule over others , Liberty having been ignored – a current movement that endangers the general state of peace throut the entire world .
One shouldn't judged people for what they did in other times...
We're not as free to do things, as they were.
We'll probably never understand their level of freedom either. Freedom is something that we've lost a lot off in the last century alone...
Be that as it may...
The person who took the Marbles were free to do so, and at least they still exist...
Perhaps it was the best thing for them. Britain still a much better place for such objects to be in than to be in many of the places where such objects came from...
Such cultural heritage should be kept where they'll be save...
They cannot be replaced if they're lost...
Before returning anything to any place [this] , the safety and continued extence of the objects in question, should be considered above any returning of items to any place, doesn't matter the quantity of whining that may come out of such a place...
Yours sincere
Pieter J
It's always nice to read about new & develping ancient Native American cultures; bravo. But that ceramic statue accompaning the above article labled as a ‘Shaman’; shouldn't it be ‘Shawoman’? It's because of the apparent breast on the figure. And is this same statue an example of Decapitation Art of the Cupisnque/Chavin culture(s)? It appears to be kneeling but I see nothing of the lower leg.
Anything that's heavy that has anything to do with any type of site like a temple or a sacred place dedicated to some God or something shouldn't be removed to begin with, and definitely should be replaced be . it honestly has to do with the amount of weight the structure has on what's in the ground underneath it. it's shape it has to do with energy, how the energy moves, and how it moves through the water underground, around whatever materials may be present that it flows around . the weight from the structure on top of the conductive materials (crystal,granite usually but not exclusively) what increases the size of the energy field, or the Torus around whatever conductive materials are in deposited in the ground there. If something or things are moved too much or taking away too much the sky basically falls the trees get smaller everything is smaller and may cause things like earthquakes and landslides and other strange things like the heat from the sun, causing fires. I guess I'm going to have to try to write all this out and explain to you and give and show you like physically how this whole ancient system of temples and sacred spots actually worked to benefit everyone.
As we've seen in recent Middle Eastern conflicts, some areas of the world are not 'healthy' for historical artifacts. I side with relocating ALL antiquities to countries where they have the best chance of surviving intact!
I'm seeing the same destructive powers at work in the USA at present with idiots tearing down history. You can't rewrite history BUT you can learn from it!
Hi Alicia,
Do you have any info about those lines crossed horizontal and vertical above the spyder god mural ? It seems an ancient symbol. Thank you.
This post has nothing to do with debating the topic
Lord Elgin made plaster reliefs of the marbles before they were given to the British Museum.
It was refreshing to hear your follow up regarding the "journalistic liberties" about your research.
Thank you again
Jeannie
It's all about the history and heritage of a people in a country. In the two countries you mentioned, early man has a strong presence. There is an incredible amount of history. Yes, they want to recover their history, but it's history that was taken from them. Not purchased or freely given.
I would encourage all who have not done so to read the “The Elgin Marbles” by the late Christopher Hitchens before taking a position this emotional, contentious issue.
I have seen and admired the Parthenon marbles at the British museum many times. They are beautiful art. From what has been reported, the Ottomans, who at the time ruled Greece allowed these national Greek treasures to be ripped from the Parthenon and taken away by the British. Whether Lord Elgin had a bill of sale or not, the Ottomans were the ones to let these marbles leave Greece. Therefore since they controlled everything at the time this event happened, they bear full responsibility for their leaving Greece. Since the Ottoman Empire no longer exists, we need to ask who inherited the Ottoman legacy, and that of course is current day Turkey. Of course as is common practise the Turks toatally deny being responsible for this calamity, just like they deny all the atrocities commited by the Turks under the guise of the Ottomans. The Turks are responsible because the compensation paid to purchase these marbles entered the coffres of the Ottomans, which then was taken over and benefited modern day Turkey. The British at the time legally purchased these marbles, otherwise they could never have been able to ship them to London. But these days Greeks see London as a low lying fruit compared with the Turks. So. the debate goes on...
Were’nt the locals tering the place apart to put the marble ‘to better use’ building houses, walls, etc. at the time? or is that just a myth? but if so, they were saved, not pillaged
When does it become archeology and nit grave robbing ?
How many years have to pass ?
Egypt is now trying to reclaim so of the achefacts that were taken over 100 years ago
China is scouting auctions trying to get a lot of their treasures back
China is paying for them, Egypt is just demanding them back (they have so much tucked away, they can never show it all, even with their new museum)
We will never know if he had an agreement with the Ottomans, we will never know if he stole them, there is nothing written down
We weren't there
All we know is they are in the British museum now and they are in better condition if they had been left in their original position/place
Not so well taken care of!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/543077.stm#:~:text=Greece%20says%20staff%2....
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