All  

Welcome to the Ancient-Origins.net Forums. In order to avoid spam messages, we require all users of the forum to register first.

If you are not registered please click on the Register link from the top menu. If you are registered LOGIN here.

23 posts / 0 new
Last post
What Do You Think About Atlantis?

What do you believe about Atlantis? Do you think the story is true of False? Was the story made up by Plato to make a point about morality? Is the story partially true? Where is Atlantis located and what makes you think so? Have you actually read Plato’s version of his story or you only read what others wrote about what he wrote? Do you think Atlantis will ever be found? What have you read lately and why should I read it? Do you think the story of Atlantis has been encoded because the language has changed over time? What size was Atlantis According to Plato?

:-))) Oh that is a

:-))) Oh that is a coincidence…

I just posted a prediction on Atlantis in the Babel Text. Then seen your message.

The prediction is based on translating the Babel Text, and the most probable location being The Gulf of Tonkin.

The Babel Text apparently gives the latitude and longitude, and surprisingly The Gulf of Tonkin does match Plato’s desriptions. 

I originally made this prediction in The Map That Talked.

Dr. Derek Cunningham
Author of:
The Map that Talked - How astronomy was used to map the ancient world
The Babel Texts - Decoding the early text of the Stone Age
Scotland and Shakespeare's Third Prophecy - Recovering Scotland's Forgotten past

Yes. I think the legend is

Yes. I think the legend is based on the towns of Akroitiri/ knossos on the Greek Volcanic island of Thera. The ancient Minoan civilization thrived around it, volcano exploded, no more Knossos or Akroitiri.

The Minion civilization soon began to collapse as what's believed to possibly be its main trade centre of Thera was destroyed (look up about the remains of Akroitiri, they dug it up - it's just like Pompeii and amazingly preserved).

People don't exactly forget a volcanic eruption and break down of civilization as a result that came that easily. A couple of hundred years later Plato writes about an island city that's completely destroyed because of its corrupt ways called Atlantis and thus it becomes a legend.

 

https://ggstreetview.com

Atlantis

Reread Plato!  He says specifically that Atlantis was outside the Pillars of Hercules, which means that Knossus or any other location in the Mediterranean is out of the question.

Atlantis whereabouts

I agree it is oustside the Straits of Gibraltar and very likely in the volcanic Azores where recently aerial surveys show a sunken island. 

 

The Eastern and Western Pillars...

 

Actually….Plato did not say that it was in the Mediterranean.

...and it seems the interpretation that the Pillars of Hercules must be in the Mediterranean region was a mistranslation. 

This is a short extract from my Book “The Map That Talked”

“George Lyman Kittredge in 1909 undertook perhaps the most detailed study of all the various claims regarding the location of the various “Pillars”, and in his exhaustive study, the confusion appears to come from the works of two authors; the poet Guido del Colonne, the author of the 13th century novel surrounding the History of the Trojan wars, and Geoffrey Chaucer (1343- 1400) the author of The Monk’s Tale. 

Kittredge noted that there was a major problem in the combined works of Guido and Chaucer. First Guido did not speak of “Bothe the worldes endes”, but only the western end. Kitteridge also believes that Guido totally mis-understood a passage in the Roman de Troie, and that Benoit of Sainte More was referring to the Pillars of the East and not the Pillars of South Spain/North Africa [the western pillars].

As Chaucer is often referred to as the father of English literature, Chaucer’s statement that The Pillars were placed in the west had considerable weight. 

However, there are other papers that suggest the Herculean Pillars were located in the East. 

These reports carry, in my view, more weight than Chaucer’s questionable interpretation, because they come from Alexander the Great’s campaign which travelled to Asia. Alexander the Great was the student of Aristotle, who in turn was the student of Plato, and with Alexander the Great, being of the school of Plato, he would appear to be the most reliable candidate to know exactly where Plato placed The Pillars.  “

Overall the evidence appears to point to The Gulf of Tonkin. It has the correct dimensions, and it has a central volcanic island that is the right size

Hope this helps….

 

Dr. Derek Cunningham
Author of:
The Map that Talked - How astronomy was used to map the ancient world
The Babel Texts - Decoding the early text of the Stone Age
Scotland and Shakespeare's Third Prophecy - Recovering Scotland's Forgotten past

Atlantis

I think it is real, but Atlantis is NOT Santorini or Crete.  Plato says that Atlantis was OUTSIDE the pillars of Hercules.  This means that Santorini and Crete are out of the running to be Atlantis.  I think that Atlantis is more likely to be found possibly in the Carribean, which sustained serious damage during the Dryas event. 

Atlantis whereabouts

It was in the volcanic Azores not far from the Pillars of Hercules where an exploded island was recently found underwater.

I'd written a paper in

I'd written a paper in college back in 1970 about the archaeologists who researched Santorini and Crete, including their speculation that  the Minoan civilization may well have been the origin of the story Plato related about an impressive ancient civilization destroyed by a huge cataclysm. I'll try to share what I recall, but encourage a thorough research of the Minoan civilizaion..
I do recall that the Greek archaeologist whose book I had read said that since antiquity, a pair of mountains on the Greek mainland's shore was also called the Pillar of Hercules by Greek residents, and he suggested that was the origin of the reference to them, in Plato's tale, thereby locating Atlantis in the Aegean. Whatever. He also had the insight that the numbers mentioned in the story had serious flaws and contradictions that lead to false conclusions.
Plato says he is faithfully re-telling a story that was passed down to him, through the years  as retold by the Egyptian priest Solon. Plato first says Atlantis an island with an advanced civilization that was destroyed 9,000 years before. And he describes the island's size as being 3,000 miles. To the teachers who passed on this oral tradition through the years, something was obviously amiss, in that there are no islands that massive, which might be why the description as being "Larger than Libya" came from.  Similarly, the idea of Atlantis being a tale that's been passed down orally for as long as 9, 000 years strains credulity.
However, the Greek Archaeologist realized, due to the mistaken translation from Egyptian to Greek, the numbers were off by a factor of 10,  which is how the incredible, 3,000 mile continent-size of the island of Atlantis described by Plato, was really an island the size of Crete, 300 miles.  Similarly, the antiquity for Atlantis is more like 900 years than the 9000 years mention by Plato.

The so-called golden-age of Greek history was built on the shoulders of the Minoan Civilization which preceded them, not only philosophically, but technologically as well, including the fact their palaces were equipped with running toilets. The Minoan civilization was  virtually destroyed by the largest cataclysm in human history, the Santorini eruption circa 1600 BC...which, by measurements of it's caldera, was at least 5 times bigger than the Krakatoa eruption. The Mycenean Greeks, from the mainland soon invaded and took over what remained. 

Fitting Plato's description of Atlantis, the Minoan predominant colors were black and red, they venerated bulls, were predominantly peaceful and were very egalitarian, their women had more rights than European 19th century women.  

Scott Wolter and others have interesting reasons to conjecture that the Minoans, as well the the Phoenicians, used Michigan as a source for large quantities of copper is in the Bronze age that were excavated from there in antiquity.
Certainly there are traces of long-hidden ancient civilizations around the world, but, to a 5th century BC philosopher in Athens, he was passing along an oral account of a huge cataclysm that occurred some 15-20 generations before him. . The dramatic and terrifying end to the first flourishing civilization in Europe was both inspiring and haunting.
 

Atlantis

I have always thought that Plato’s Atlantis was a confusion of two different stories. First, a volcanic eruption in the mediterranean which would fit well with Santorini. Second, a spoken memory of a long forgotten land over the sea, which would be the Americas.

It has always suggested to me that America was known about long before the Greek civilisation

There have been claims of

There have been claims of Egyptian artifacts discovered in the Americas. Little is known of where the renowned seafarers the Phoenecians went, but they probably visited Britain and Ireland (it has been suggested that Ireland was Atlantis and there are certainly many areas of land in the north-west of Europe which have disappeared under the sea since the Bronze Age). I believe the Phoenicians would have been able to sail to the Americas as easily as Columbus.

Star Formation

Galaxy with high rate star formation have you ever wondered to yourself, where do most of the star formation occur in the Milky Way today? The Milky Way has long been known for its giant spiral arm as well as many other satellites orbiting the gas giants. The reason this place is so interesting is that it is actually a very old space filled with star systems. Many astronomers use the stars close to the horizon as navigation systems to guide them to where the best places to visit are within the system. >» https://cayiz.com/galaxy-with-high-rate-star-formation-how-stars-are-formed-in-the-milky-way-galaxy-2021/ 

Atlantis was almost certainly

Atlantis was almost certainly located at what is now called the Richat Structure in NW Africa.  That site, and really under all the Sahara sand needs to be investigated for at least subterranean human evidence.  Plato, and those of this time (and before) would certainly have known more than the little that has survived the ages (not be destroyed by the purveyors of the false narratives).  Parts of Timaeus that would have provided more detail are missing, so it was probably somebody’s mistake that any ancient texts about Atlantis remain extant.  But Plato did indicate Atlantis was completely destroyed, likely in the same calamidy that also damaged monolith structures elsewhere all over the planet – and created deserts.  It would appear that a brutal, murderous assault from above (alien spaceships) did this, and thereafter came conquering landing parties (Persia, Rome, China) and the planetary takeover that leads us to today, where our modern view of history is mostly all lies to cover up the ugly truth.   

Nobody gets paid to tell the truth.

Atlantis

Plato states his information came from notes taken by the great Greek statesman Solon when he visited Egypt and heard the story of Atlantis.  I think the key here is “notes” suggesting a few brief comments and not a historical document.  It makes perfect sense that Plato took the basic information that a mighty civilization sank overnight 10,000 years ago (I don’t recall the exact figure he gave).  That time period is right when the sea level rose 400 feet as the glaciers of the ice age melted.   There’s also a theory that there was a comet impact around then that caused the Younger Dryas.   All in all, a bad time for cities built on an island or a sea shore.  But Plato needed to tell an interesting story and give details so he took the Minoan Civilization and the eruption of Santorini that was only 1000 years before Plato’s time (approximately) so more information would be available.  So he described Atlantis using Minoan references .  I think the key is he says Atlantis sinned in planning to attack Athens!  It would make sense there had been war between the Minoans and Athens.  There are Greek myths that suggest that.   So my point is that I think there are two parts to finding the truth about Atlantis.  First dismiss all the description that fits Santorini and the Minoans.  Then focus on the basic claim about a mighty civilization that sank into the ocean (or got flooded by a rising sea0 10,000 years ago.  If we can prove it existed, that will rewrite ancient history.

Marian Powell

Yes, let’s dig down!  ...And

Yes, let’s dig down!  ...And then  also explain the bones found in the old dried up mud or subterrean chambers, and discontinue the prevailing non-sense that they were intentionally buried like that as part of some silly practice.  Dead bodies would certainly be cremated in all ancient water-oriented or cave communities, to of course prevent contamination of ground water, and/or the fouling of subterraneans living spaces.  The Sahara used to be lush as we know, and civilization require it (abundant fresh water) – deserts cannot give rise to or sustain civilization.  But no surprise that the current official narrative is illogical in many ways – it’s just what normally results when lies are piled onto lies, to protect the great big lies at the bottom of it all.  Thanks Sunflower for your educated response.

Nobody gets paid to tell the truth.

Atlantis

The best and most believable book about Atlantis was written by Otto Muck in 1976: “The Sevcret of Atlantis”.

It describes the cause and result of an 11km diameter asteraoid that got pulled off its normal orbit by the conjunction of Earth, its moon, the sun and Venus. It hit Earth at 1pm, 5 June 8498 BC in the area just East of Florida. The impact caused major disruption worldwide, including tilting Eath’s axis of rotation to the extent that the beautiful forests of Siberia where suddenly frozen, killing both the forest and deepfreezing the Mammuths, and flooding large areas of earth. It caused vulcanic eruptions along the joint of the African and American plates, and sinking Atlantis, which was located in that joint. That date was also the beginning of the Mayas famous calender.

Atlantis

Inspired by Donnelly, many later writers expanded on his theories and added their own speculations as to where Atlantis may have been. One of these writers was Charles Berlitz, grandson of the founder of the well-known language schools, and author of many books on paranormal phenomena. In the 1970s, Berlitz claimed Atlantis was a real continent located off the Bahamas that had fallen victim to the notorious “Bermuda Triangle,” a region of the Atlantic where a number of ships had supposedly disappeared under mysterious circumstances. Supporters of this theory point to the discovery of what look like man-made walls and streets found off the coast of Bimini, although scientists have evaluated these structures and found them to be natural beach-rock formations.

“Beware the barrenness of a busy life.” – Socrates 
- Adam Scott, certified blogger and writer, visit us for more articles.

Atlantis

I believe that Plato’s story of Atlantis to be true and that the land of Atlantis was the Caucasus mountain range, which was an isthmus some 12,000 years ago when the landsape was very different and flooded. Then, it was possible to travel by boat from the Caspian Sea/lake to the Black Sea/lake.

Reginald Fessenden was correct in his deductions about Atlantis and connections to Egypt in that flood survivors migrated away from the region with some settling in the Nile Valley.  Fessenden however was unaware of the existence of and extent of a cataclysmic marine flood. He considered flooding to be the result of deglaciation.

Fessendens work is detailed here : http://www.radiocom.net/Deluge/Deluge1-6.htm.  

For evidence of flooding see: http://www.isjss.com/upload/file/2_2011/Gallagher.pdf.  And here:

https://www.academia.edu/37625564/Observations_of_Caspian_strandlines_th...

Note Figure 18 of the ISJSS paper shows a rock art depiction of what I interpret as the swollen Caspian Sea spilling over into the Manych corridor.  The many rock art boats demonstrate long distance travel, so it is reasonable to infer that ancient navigators knew the geography of the Caspian sea and of its major outlet to the north west. 

At an elevation of 24m above sea level, the Caspian Sea (currently at minus 28m bsl) overflows into the Black Sea via the Kuma Manych corridor.  The town at the entrance to this gateway is called Terekli Mehteb, but i snow high and dry.   (Coordinates - 44° 9'42.51"N 45°52'26.33"E).

Here is what Fessenden discovered:

THE PILLARS OF HERCULES ON THE MAP UNDER THEIR RIGHT NAMES

Perhaps the most astonishing thing is that the eastern Pillars of Hercules are to be found on the map, under their right name, i.e. Stavka Terekli (Stave of Hercules on the Times Atlas 71,L,2; or Kurtkeuli-Juk-Jewe (Jak beacon of Hercules) on the Stieler Atlas, 49, 0, 19.

This village is, as shown by the old shell deposits, on the former shore of the Caspian or Asiatic Mediterranean; and at the old mouth of the Kuma . It marked the spot where ships from the Asiatic Mediterranean must enter the Manytsch Lake system in order to go through to the Black Sea.

It is now, owing to the recedence of the Caspian, about fifty miles inland; and this, together with the fact that no one looked for the Pillars in this locality until the writer was forced to the conclusion that they must be in the vicinity, must be the reason why they were not discovered by others long ago.

So here we have evidence of the eastern pillars of Hercules in its correct place. The Western Pillar was at the Strait of Kertch at the Sea of Azov between the Crimea and Caucasus.  So, in effect, both pillars once existed with the land of Atlantis (i.e. the Caucasus) lying in its correct proportion in between.

Throughout history researchers have been unable to locate Atlantis because the Sea of Atlantis (i.e. a swollen and conjoined Caspian and Black Sea) no longer exists.  Instead there was a focus on Gibraltar as being a pillar of Atlantis, but according to Fessenden even the Phoenicians new this was incorrect.  Time and geographical changes have prevented the Atlantis story being passed donwn corectly through the ages, leaving only a remnant of the story in Egyptian records which was passed on to Solon then to Plato.

If anyone wishes to test the theory of the Atlantean deluge then all that is needed is to conduct an optically stimulated luminescence study (OSL) of the strandlines and sediments below Azerbaijan’s two mud volcanoes – Boyuk Kanozadagh and Davilidagh.  RAdiocarbon dating of molluscs at Terekli Mehteb is advised.

The geomorphological evidence of strandlines (like coffee rings in a cup) already testify to a massive 222m/730ft asl flood. This occurred in geologically recent times and needs to be dated.  If the flood is dated to the start of the Holocene then it gives credence to the story of Atlantis being based in the Caucasus. Further details can be found here: https://www.zin.ru/conferences/Aral2019/PDFs/Gallagher.pdf.

I trust this is food for thought. 

Lastly, it is further interesting to consider that this marine flood which impacted Central Asia resulted in widespread migrations away to safety.  Assuming it was a precivilisation that was impacted could this be the reason why we see contemporary civilisations arising in the Indus Valley and Sumer?       

Kurgan

Atlantis

Nobodies mentioned Doggerland or Sundaland yet?!

Atlantis

I think Doggerland And Sundaland timing is wrong.  Doggerland is fairly small.  Sundaland could have contributed the idea of Atlantis ruling a continent since it was a continent.

Marian Powell

Atlantis

I think Plato’s reference to Atlantis was a figure of speech perhaps compairing Sanotini/Fira to a previous catastrophe well known in the Ancient world. Sadly records of the actual stories kept in Alexandria has been lost unless there a closely guarded records hidden in various places around the world.

I’d probably start looking round the West Coast of Ireland and Nordic natives peoples for clues of the original Atlantis.

NR

Potientially, the Azores

Potientially, the Azores pyramid has some merit to be Atlantis and there is even a web site:

There is a dedicated site and also an articale here at Ancient Origins. https://www.azores-pyramid.org/  https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/reports-underwater-pyramid-coast-terceira-island-00864

The Azores-Pyramid site has articles from 2013 which was as far as I clicked on the “read more” button.

Imaginary

I believe “Atlantis” is a literary invention of Plato’s, and is no more real than Middle Earth or Wonderland.

MickYo