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Atlantis

Marcus Aurelius

Atlantis

Marcus Aurelius

Atlantis

Yes, it seems in my opinion that Plato's story, or was it Solon's story, picked up in Egypt that has a lot of truth in it.
However, we are so focused on one specific place, but in my opinion there could be more than one place in the World we can call remnants of Atlantis. Or probably, and of course, just an hypothesis, couldn't it be a high civilised civilization parallel with a far more primitive civilisation.?
The real Atlantis ?? Remnants too, could be the Eye of Africa, Guelb Dr Richat, near the small village of Ouadane in Mauritania, West Africa. (visiting Atlantis.com)
The destruction of those civilisations, due to Eart Crust displacement almost 12000 years ago as described by the late Charles Hapgood ? (Interesting new book; Deep History and the Ages of Man by Mark H Gaffney) The Black Sea Flood, probably happened the same time.
It is clear that We, our current Humanity is one of amnesia, as said by Immanuel Velikovsky. Furthermore We have the tendency to ignore, suppress, even destroy information, ideas and more when it doesn't fit in our "believe" or ideas. That's on a personal level and on an administrative, government level as well.
I saw Heinrich Schliemann mentioned, but there is a very interesting and convincing book of Iman Wilkens; Where Troy once Stood. ! And not in Turkey, but somewhere near, what's now is Cambridge in England. But that story is not well known. Amnesia ? It's not peer reviewed, so it doesn"t count !
Mount Sinai, where according to the Bible Moses got the 10 commandments. I visited the place, but while traveling, there is another story, that the real mount is Jebel el Laws and that's in Saudi Arabia not to far from the Red Sea. The area is fenced of. The Saudi's have already Mecca. They are not waiting for Christians too.
The "Atlantans", have they "tweaked" our DNA an 40000 years ago? And where did they came from and when ? Far further deep. In history. But how far ?

Atlantis

Yes I agree. I have no reason to doubt the story provided by Plato, but I believe it has been misinterpreted by some. He said there were ten kingdoms of Atlantis. The ringed harbour was merely the capital and was on an island – not a continent – possibly the Azores – Atlantis was clearly a seafaring nation, basing its economy on sea trade. The description that it was as large as Libya and Asia – can only mean one place – The Americas. Andrew Collin’s book on Atlantis in the Caribbean and Jim Allen’s book Atlantis Lost Kingdom in the Andes are both right – they have placed two out of the ten locations of Atlantis. I can imagine another three kingdoms would have been the Amazon, Central America and The Mississippi region of North America. So that is 4 including the Caribbean. Another in the Azores – the capital, then North West Africa (Lixus and Morocco), also Egypt, Spain and the British Isles (Doggerland)  –  so thats 9 out of ten. Greece was an enemy of the state of Atlantis. I do believe the mid Atlantic ridge was out of the water during the time of Atlantis – due to isostatic rebalancing of the ice at the poles depressing the earth’s crust and causing a distention of the ocean floor where it is the most flexible – such as the mid Atlantic ridge. The Woods Hole Geological expedition did find beach sand lines either side of the ridge that were 25,000 years old proving that the ridge was out of the water 25,000 years ago. The Azores is part of that ridge and would have been 1-2 km above sea level during the ice age. Trying to blend legend with the facts, the Atlanteans were most likely the Solutreans of France/Spain who have the same tool types as the Clovis Hunters 15,000 years ago - they would have been Cro Magnon man – taller than modern man and would have been the foundation for Lakota and Mayan stories of the blonde haired bearded giants from 18,000 years ago. Hairy and big were both traits common to many animals during the Ice Age due to natural selection adapting to the cold conditions. Pale skin, blue/green eyes and blonde hair are also adaptive traits as the body dumps Melanin from the system as it tries to absorb Vitamin D from the weaker sun. Basque DNA is also a remnant of these early people of Europe who stopped interacting with Europe 13,000 years ago – the time when the comet hit the Canadian Ice Shield 12,900 years ago, destroying the Kingdom of Atlantis and severing contact between Europe and the Americas. Remnants of these people in the Americas can be seen in the DNA of the golden haired Araucano of Chile and the DNA of the red haired Easter Islanders – who have DNA closer to the cro magnon man of early Europe than the Basques themselves. Their tallness, red hair, green eyes and very broad chins are all traits of these cro magnon people of Atlantis. The Waitaha and Ngati Hotu people of New Zealand are also a remnant of these early people of who connect with the ancient people of Tulan (the name for Atlantis in the Americas). Mu is a different story. That is most likely the seafaring kingdom of the Pacific – which included the now submerged continental shelf of East Asia, Sunderland, New Guinea, Hawaii and with trade contact with the Atlanteans in Central  America. If you look at the seafloor around Hawai’i, the old coastline is quite obvious – you can see for a significant time it was much higher out of the water – to the tune of 900 metres! Possibly during the last Ice age – the time of Mu. The Jomon culture was quite sophistocated 15,000 years ago and there are sites in Indonesia (Gunung Padang)  and New Guinea (irrigation channels) that also go back 12-15,000 years. Each sub kingdom had its own character. These early seatraders did not have the arrogant mentality of the Spanish and English – how they systematically destroyed the cultures of the Americas under the dubious banner of the Christian cross. Instead, it was a live and let live – fair trade with sovereign states. The Hawaiian and the Tibetan cultures are probably the best remnant of this ancient culture of Mu. Kings with golden or red robes with crescent crests, a culture where intuition was valued as well as compassion, honour and dignity.   

Atlantis and Mu

In regard to the ancient civilization of Mu; A while ago, I was talking to Jason Phillips a Taumoko artist of Whakarewarewa and he was telling me how a friend had been to Tibet and found a real connection with the people. What caught his attention was being greeted with the Pukana - a Maori (and Tibetan) tradition of sticking out ones tongue to show off ones virility. He also noticed how similar the priest’s garb was to Hawaiian chiefs. The orange crescent crest hats and red robes were uncannily similar. He thought there had to be some sort of priestly connection - but how could there be a commonality to two cultures 10,000 kilometres apart - how could a mountain dwelling culture and a seafaring nation be related? I was perplexed, then one day I saw this paper by; Katsushi Tokunaga etal. ’A Genetic link between Asians and Native Americans; ‘HLA’s A24-Cw8-B48, A24-Cw10-B60 and A24-Cw9-B61 were all commonly observed in Taiwan indigenous populations (pre Chinese), Tibetans, Thais, Tlingit, Maori, Pima, Maya, Japanese, Orochon, Buryat, Man, Yakut and Inuit.’ These findings indicated that East Asia was the dispersal point for both the Tibetans and the Polynesians, not to mention certain Native American groups. Studies by Mark Stoneking indicate this dispersal occurred approximately 6,000 years ago, before the Chinese expanded down onto the East Coast from the interior.
A little research revealed that the Tibetans believe they are descended from Avalokitesvara and ancestress GuanYin, who were from an island off the coast of China - Putuo Shan - The Sanscrit equivelant of Putuo is Potalaka. The palace of Dalai Lama in Lhasa is called `Potala Palace' - also the residence of Avalokitesvara. Although Buddha only goes back to 600AD, earlier forms of the Buddhist religion go back much further than that. When one sees the megalithic entrance rocks on Putuo Shan, one can imagine this island has a very deep history of great importance to the origins of the East Asian people.
Looking on a map, one finds Putuo Shan is on the south side of the Yellow Sea - the home sea of Hawai’i Loa - the discoverer of Hawai’i and not far from the centre of the Hemudu culture - a culture that some believe was the birth place of the Austronesian culture. Further into the Yellow Sea, one finds the Hongshan culture which produced Jade carvings not unlike the Jade carving of the Maori. On the North side of the Yellow sea can be found petroglyphs not unlike the ones in the Bella Coola Valley - also attributed to a proto Polynesian culture.
When I first heard the names Potala and Putuo, I immediately thought of Pulotu - the Samoan ancestral homeland.
In Tongan mythology, Pulotu is presided over by ancestral figure Havea Hikuleʻo. In Tongan cosmology the sky, the sea, and Pulotu existed from the beginning, and the gods lived there. There are suggestions that for Tonga and Samoa, Pulotu refers to a real country that went underwater - a place where there was a civilization for which they held great reverence.
It is not hard to imagine that Putuo Shan may hold the key to the origins of the Polynesian nation. A remnant of a lost civilization that once inhabited the flooded continental shelf off East Asia. One can imagine this great civilization being ruled by kings and Queens in red robes and orange crescent crests with processions adorned with rows of Kahili.
Hawai’i is most definitely a nation connected to the North Pacific - the Hawai'ian language uses L instead of R as in East Asian languages, they use the Glottal Stop the same as the Tlingit and Haida and they make stone tools similar to Both East Asia and the Canadian NW - This is the area people need to be looking to find the origins of the Polynesian culture - not New Guinea or Indonesia. It has the right mix of DNA, the right stone technologies, culture and oral histories that all agree with the science. Why are there no scientific studies being done regarding these obvious connections?
 

Polynesia

Thanks peter Panther for posting your ideas on this matter. I too have been fascinated by the Polynesiann diaspora and I was almost dumbstruck when I first heard the chanting and body percussion of the native people who now live in the inner mountains of Taiwan. Polynesian cultural influences are certainly spread around the entire Pacific rim.

Step

Re: Atlantis & Mu

When I went to Hawaii to view the geometric patterns at the Olowalu site, I discovered the Hawaiian angular texts are identical to the geometric text found in China, Australia, Europe and Africa. WIth DNA data arguing Australia was cut off from the rest of the word for 50,000 years and  the earliest geometrical texts dating to between circa 400,000 to 70,000 years old, I think Atlanits is referring to a Stone Age civilisation. 

Dr. Derek Cunningham
Author of:
The Map that Talked - How astronomy was used to map the ancient world
The Babel Texts - Decoding the early text of the Stone Age
Scotland and Shakespeare's Third Prophecy - Recovering Scotland's Forgotten past

Too many people smoking too much dope

The Eye of the Sahara is south and east of Gibraltar in Mauritania – negated.  Such Jupiter or Saturn crappola as no one lives anywhere within the extreme geomagnetism and atmospheric pressurof those planets – negated.  Such storylines of celestial events related to terrestrial events is beyond sanity – negated.

It is readily proven that when you reverse the paleomagnetic lines of the mid-ocean ridges, it DEMANDS that the planet was smaller in volume (not necessarily in mass).  The planet’s core is not some iron and nickel core.  It is a true piece of (super)nova core fragment that then accreted its own planetary asthenosphere and lithosphere.  Just reducing the volume (and size) of the earth does not have to correlate to a planetary mass.  With such a massive gravity core, that is then covered by a literal plasmatic uranium and radioactive actinides and lanthanides sphere, surrounded by plasmatic lead sphere, THEN surround that with your iron and nickel ferromagnetic SPHERE, etc asthenosphere and lithosphere, the planet CAN GROW and EXPAND with the same mass intact.

As such, the lithosphere has been the lithosphere and in context, is not part of the expanding asthenosphere.  This planet has been far more small with the same mass of a plasmatic core and spheres in the paleo-past.  Such expansion with a rock-solid lithosphere, even with shattered plate tectonics and any subsiding zones, the lithosphere remains the lithosphere.  The smaller planet, with less oceans, and greater atmospheric waters (biblical “upper heavens”) would be these portions of waters NOT on the lithosphere and asthenosphere.  Only after the greatest of a super solar or cosmic CME impacting the earth, and frying documented parts of the equatorial and temperate zones ancient contructions of vitrified stones in Egypt, Peru, Anatolia, … in the 12,000s/10,000s BCE, such massive volumes of waters were evaporated and condensed in the upper atmosphere.  Only with the capture of the Moon, could any such upper atmospheres be disrupted and fall entirely onto the planet, filling up any and all regions of ocanic asthenospheric depths.  

Atlantis can only be in the Thera/European theater or that of Central America, supported by biblical statements, ancient historians, and mythistory and legends that were stated by literal comments in their documents.

Crappola

What’s that got to do with it?  It is a simple fact that literally all of the ancients revered planets as gods, and various other astronomical constructs and phenomena as heavens, angels, devils, etc.  That’s just fact.  It is undeniable.  Worse still, for any wishing to jetison any such ideas is that the ancients saw those spheres up close and personal to the point that they described them in great detail, with no satellites or even telescopes.

Take, for example, the Santa Claus myth.  It’s religion, actually, and not a children’s fairy tale.  And it’s no accident that it comes from the northern hemisphere only; it was intimately tied to the north ‘pole’ … back when the north pole was visible as the pillar of heaven.  Santa Claus was Mars, red coloring, rotund physique, white trimming, and all.  Even the (two) lumps of coal, or two black Petes (in Holland and Belgium), come from the moons of Mars, the two blackest bodies in our solar system.  And Mars was once prominently positioned off our north pole, until it began to descend to earth.  And then returned to its northernmost position again.  And it repeated this.  How often?  We don’t know, but, clearly, often enought that it became a pattern, and the myth of Sissyphus.

And then, one day, Mars didn’t stop.  It kept right on going.  Giving us the myth of the dying god, Santa coming down to the ‘children’ of men to give them a gift.  Hercules, Heracles, Sussanoo, and many others are this god.

Ultimately, Christ would associate himself with Mars during and after his life, and Paul the apostle would seal that association on the Areopagus in Athens.  Look up a picture of Mars.  See the red robes?  See the marks of the nails?  See the wound in its side?  Yeah.  How would any ancient, earthbound observer have known any of that?  The knew it because Mars was once much closer to the earth.  And now it isn’t.

Marcus Aurelius

I think none of the theories

I think none of the theories are correct.

There has been much confusion about the location of Atlantis, simply because the geography of Eurasia has changed due to deglaciation since the last Ice Age, and because there was a cataclysmic flood across Eurasia possibly around 10,000 years ago.

 While the cause of the flood remains a mystery, I believe this resulted in survivors migrating to the predynastic Nile Valley, ( and elsewhere). Hence the Egyptian knowledge of Atlantis which was passed on to Solan then Plato.

These two papers are of interest in this regard and provide physical evidence as strandlines and erosion features on a mud volcano to testify to a catastrophic flood:

Ref-  The Ice Age Rise and Fall of the Ponto Caspian by Ronnie Gallagher in Academia.edu  

Ref – Observations of Caspian strandlines, their use as highstand indicators with consideration for their implications with regard to regional geomorphology, paleodrainage, and biodiversity, by Ronnie Gallagher in Academia.edu

Ancient Origins researchers ought to focus their attention on the flooded Caucasus territories as the location of Atlantis.  Reginald Fessenden went into this in great detail. Sir William Flinders Petrie, also commented on this in the article below. Unfortunately, both Fessenden and Petrie were unaware of the catastrophic flood, otherwise their sceptics might have listened more closely.

While the strandline evidence proves there was a flood, to an incredible 222m / 730 ft above mean sea level, this has yet to be dated. Dating can be done using optical stimulated luminescence (OSL) of sediments below two candidate mud volcanoes, - Boyuk Kanizadagh and Davilidagh.  I suggest that any serious researchers into Atlantis might wish to encourage an OSL investigation to date the flood. This could advance the debate about the territories of Atlantis being the Cucasian isthmus.

Researchers should also investigate Fessenden’s work here: Ref, www.radiocom.net/Deluge/Deluge1-6.htm. 

Note – Links do not seem to upload and create an error message. 

An interesting observation is made with regard to Oceanus. Referring to Plato he states ‘For he makes the sun to rise out of Oceanus and to set in Oceanus….from the deep stream of gently-flowing Oceanus’. Here the Sea of Atlantis is connected by the Manych (Manytsch) strait.  Plato also states that Atlantis is between the Pillars of Hercules which is between the Kerch Strait at the Sea of Azov, and the enterance to the Caspian Sea.  Interestingly at an elevation of 26m asl the Caspian flows through a corridor to the Sea of Azov. This gateway or harbour at the edge of the swollen Caspian is today called Terekli Mehtab. On older maps and an echo of the past it is described as Stavka Terekli (Stave of Hercules] ).  This can be read as a pillar of Hercules. This cannot be a coincidence and suggests the flooded territory around the Caucasus Mountain range including the Caspian, Black and Sea of Azov was the Sea of Atlantis where the sun rises and sets in the same body of water. The gently flowing Manych corridor has to be Oceanus.  Note. The location of Terekli Mehteb today is 44° 9'42.51"N 45°52'26.33"E.

There are also many other comparators to support the Caucasus as Atlantis.

Here is what Petrie (the father of Egyptology) has to say on Fessenden’s Atlantis opinion. 

 

Flinders Petrie
September 1924

​NOTE

Flinders Petrie was one of the most famous Egyptologists of his time, and he was one of the founders of modern archaeological field methods. In this September 1924 book review, he embraced the strange ideas of Reginald Fessenden, a pioneering radio engineer and inventor, who had come to believe that he had found proof that Atlantis was located along the Black Sea and had been destroyed at the end of the Ice Age in Noah's Flood. In the 1950s, J. O. Kinnaman, one of the archaeologists who helped excavate Tutankhamun's tomb, claimed that Petrie had made an agreement with the Egyptian government to suppress the evidence he had found of Atlantis in Egypt. While that story was false but widely repeated in fringe circles, the text below represents proof of Petrie's actual, if slight, interest in Atlantis. This article first appeared in the journal Ancient Egypt in 1924, and a search of U.S. copyright renewals found no evidence that its copyright was renewed as required by U.S. law. 

THE CAUCASIAN ATLANTIS AND EGYPT.

​The tales about Atlantis have a perpetual fascination for those who love to speculate on the riddles of the past. The latest theory is that of Mr. Reginald Fessenden, which he has put forward in The Deluged Civilization of the Caucasian Isthmus, and with additions bearing more on Egypt in the Christian Science Monthly, 18th March, 1924. The writer is competent to handle the questions from a scientific point of view, and he has certainly stated some positions which are worth considering independently of his main proposition. It is desirable, therefore, to notice various parts of the theories separately, so as to see how much can be accepted.

There can be no doubt that the Caucasus had a larger place in ancient geography and beliefs than in modern thought. That region was the background of Greek myths—Prometheus, Herakles, Jason; Herodotus knew the general condition of it, and Strabo gives a detailed account of the geography and the tribes. It is not unreasonable, then, to consider if it may be referred to as the region of other half-mythical accounts.

In the legend of the Hesperides there are two opposite accounts confused. According to one source, Herakles advances to Mount Caucasus, kills the vulture which fed on Prometheus, and arrives at Mount Atlas among the Hyperboreans. Here is an entirely different localisation of the myth to that in the western ocean. Mr. Fessenden, after tabulating the various myths, follows the Asiatic clue as the earlier, and considers that the Greeks lost the original view owing to geographical changes; then the myth was transferred to lands which had later come into prominence in the West. He notes that Homer and Hesiod had no knowledge of Spain or the Atlantic, that the description of the ocean of Atlantis will not agree with the later Atlantic, and that there is no submerged area to be traced there belonging to traditional times.

This view that Mount Atlas was Asiatic brings us to the geological standpoint of an “Asiatic Mediterranean” of the early Pleistocene, stretching from the Arctic Ocean to include the Black Sea and the Caspian. This region would be all flooded by the last great submersion to 600-feet level. The connection of the Caspian with the Black Sea lasted much later, and would only require less than 50-feet rise of sea-level to renew their unity. A tradition of this seems shown when Strabo mentions that some persons still believed in a connection of the Caspian with the lake Maiotis (Sea of Azov), the northern branch of the Black Sea. Various legends of Herakles, Atlas, and the Pillars of Herakles, are all, then, taken as belonging to the Black Sea region, and having been later transferred to the West, when the Greeks were familiar with their colonial expansion in Sicily, Italy, Spain and France. The various traditions of the Deluge are next compared, from five different sources, and all refer to the Black Sea or lands adjacent. The nature of the catastrophe involves a sudden rise of sea-level, of amounts up to 125 feet. The conclusion is that a tidal wave in the Atlantis Sea north of the Black Sea caused a rush of water, which flooded all the shores of the Caucasus and destroyed a civilisation in that region. Such was the source of the legends of Atlantis.

An entirely separate course of the new theories is the proposed Egyptian connection with the Caucasus. Until this year anyone viewing such theories from the Egyptian side would have felt them to be outside of reasonable consideration. But a fundamental change has come over Egyptian archaeology with the discovery of the earliest civilisation yet known, which appears to be akin to the Solutrean. The remote district of Badari has now entered into archaeological literature, as the seat of the Badarian culture, of a high type in its pottery and ability to glaze, and well advanced in figure working. Moreover, this is clearly the basis of all the following prehistoric civilisation of Egypt; it forms part of the continuity of civilisation in that land. If—as appears—this is derived from the same stock as the Solutrean culture of Europe, it must have travelled down from the Caucasus region, for the Solutrean work passed north of the Black Sea into Austria, Poland and northern France, without developing on the Mediterranean. Hence the groundwork of Egyptian civilisation—planted on an African people— is from the Caucasus; with it, presumably, arrived a strong stock of the people who brought it, as a mere trade influence could not be supposed to travel so far with such fundamental effect on most arts.

This entirely new outlook finds strong support in ancient statements. Herodotus insists on the resemblances between the Colchians—south of the Caucasus—and the Egyptians in appearance, in customs, and in products. The Colchians are said to be dark by Herodotus, Pindar and Euripides, and Homer and Hesiod speak of Ethiopians in Colchis. Unhappily no research is possible in that region of Georgia, as it is now tortured politically by the Soviet.

The earliest civilisation of Egypt being thus linked to the Caucasus region, we cannot disregard some resemblances of names which Mr. Fessenden brings forward, and which may be further extended. In the Book of the Dead the sun is said to rise over the mountain of Bakhau, and the modern Baku is at the eastern extremity of the Caucasus. The sun is said to set in Tamanu, and the Taman peninsula is at the western end of the Caucasus. Close by that is the lake of Maiotis (Sea of Azov), and the lake Maoti was close to Tamanu in the west (ch. xvii). The gate to the Eastern horizon is called Haukar (Nebseni, ch. xvii), “behind the head of Kar,” and from Colchis the pass to the east is behind the head of the river Kur (Gr. Kuros), which descends to the Caspian, past Tiflis.

Such resemblances of names are sufficiently consistent in their position and in their relation to the probable source of the Egyptians to require full consideration, although we know how easily verbal resemblances may mislead. Any such names brought into Egypt with the first civilisation would necessarily undergo localisation in new positions in and around Egypt. In the Caucasus region the natural fires of petroleum springs, both in the west at Batoum, in Colchis, and in the east at Baku on the Caspian, are claimed as the original idea of the lakes of fire in the Book of the Dead. Further, these fiery streams and marshes are taken to be the origin of the Greek Pyri-phlegethon; the rich valley of the river Alazon is taken to be the origin of Elysion, and Erebus is the dark defile of the pass through the Caucasus. The Odyssey contains a sort of guidebook to the petroleum region, and many other connections are claimed. Whatever may be rejected, there seems to be good ground for seriously considering what has been noted above and seeing how far legends and traditions can be substantiated by research.

FLINDERS PETRIE.

Readers should also familiarise themselves with Petrie’s paper on the Origins of the Book of the Dead reported in my Academia.edu page. 

Ronnie Gallagher

Kurgan

Atlantis

None of the theories are correct.

There has been much confusion about the location of Atlantis, simply because the geography of Eurasia has changed due to deglaciation since the last Ice Age, and because there was a cataclysmic flood across Eurasia possibly around 10,000 years ago.

 While the cause of the flood remains a mystery, I believe this resulted in survivors migrating to the predynastic Nile Valley, ( and elsewhere). Hence the Egyptian knowledge of Atlantis which was passed on to Solan then Plato.

These two papers are of interest in this regard and provide physical evidence as strandlines and erosion features on a mud volcano to testify to a catastrophic flood:

Ref-  The Ice Age Rise and Fall of the Ponto Caspian by Ronnie Gallagher in Academia.edu  

Ref – Observations of Caspian strandlines, their use as highstand indicators with consideration for their implications with regard to regional geomorphology, paleodrainage, and biodiversity, by Ronnie Gallagher in Academia.edu

Ancient Origins researchers ought to focus their attention on the flooded Caucasus territories as the location of Atlantis.  Reginald Fessenden went into this in great detail. Sir William Flinders Petrie, also commented on this in the article below. Unfortunately, both Fessenden and Petrie were unaware of the catastrophic flood, otherwise their sceptics might have listened more closely.

While the strandline evidence proves there was a flood, to an incredible 222m / 730 ft above mean sea level, this has yet to be dated. Dating can be done using optical stimulated luminescence (OSL) of sediments below two candidate mud volcanoes, - Boyuk Kanizadagh and Davilidagh.  I suggest that any serious researchers into Atlantis might wish to encourage an OSL investigation to date the flood. This could advance the debate about the territories of Atlantis being the Cucasian isthmus.

Researchers should also investigate Fessenden’s work here: Ref, www.radiocom.net/Deluge/Deluge1-6.htm. 

Note – Links do not seem to upload and create an error message. 

An interesting observation is made with regard to Oceanus. Referring to Plato he states ‘For he makes the sun to rise out of Oceanus and to set in Oceanus….from the deep stream of gently-flowing Oceanus’. Here the Sea of Atlantis is connected by the Manych (Manytsch) strait.  Plato also states that Atlantis is between the Pillars of Hercules which is between the Kerch Strait at the Sea of Azov, and the enterance to the Caspian Sea.  Interestingly at an elevation of 26m asl the Caspian flows through a corridor to the Sea of Azov. This gateway or harbour at the edge of the swollen Caspian is today called Terekli Mehtab. On older maps and an echo of the past it is described as Stavka Terekli (Stave of Hercules] ).  This can be read as a pillar of Hercules. This cannot be a coincidence and suggests the flooded territory around the Caucasus Mountain range including the Caspian, Black and Sea of Azov was the Sea of Atlantis where the sun rises and sets in the same body of water. The gently flowing Manych corridor has to be Oceanus.  Note. The location of Terekli Mehteb today is 44° 9'42.51"N 45°52'26.33"E.

There are also many other comparators to support the Caucasus as Atlantis.

Here is what Petrie (the father of Egyptology) has to say on Fessenden’s Atlantis opinion. 

 

Flinders Petrie
September 1924

​NOTE

Flinders Petrie was one of the most famous Egyptologists of his time, and he was one of the founders of modern archaeological field methods. In this September 1924 book review, he embraced the strange ideas of Reginald Fessenden, a pioneering radio engineer and inventor, who had come to believe that he had found proof that Atlantis was located along the Black Sea and had been destroyed at the end of the Ice Age in Noah's Flood. In the 1950s, J. O. Kinnaman, one of the archaeologists who helped excavate Tutankhamun's tomb, claimed that Petrie had made an agreement with the Egyptian government to suppress the evidence he had found of Atlantis in Egypt. While that story was false but widely repeated in fringe circles, the text below represents proof of Petrie's actual, if slight, interest in Atlantis. This article first appeared in the journal Ancient Egypt in 1924, and a search of U.S. copyright renewals found no evidence that its copyright was renewed as required by U.S. law. 

THE CAUCASIAN ATLANTIS AND EGYPT.

​The tales about Atlantis have a perpetual fascination for those who love to speculate on the riddles of the past. The latest theory is that of Mr. Reginald Fessenden, which he has put forward in The Deluged Civilization of the Caucasian Isthmus, and with additions bearing more on Egypt in the Christian Science Monthly, 18th March, 1924. The writer is competent to handle the questions from a scientific point of view, and he has certainly stated some positions which are worth considering independently of his main proposition. It is desirable, therefore, to notice various parts of the theories separately, so as to see how much can be accepted.

There can be no doubt that the Caucasus had a larger place in ancient geography and beliefs than in modern thought. That region was the background of Greek myths—Prometheus, Herakles, Jason; Herodotus knew the general condition of it, and Strabo gives a detailed account of the geography and the tribes. It is not unreasonable, then, to consider if it may be referred to as the region of other half-mythical accounts.

In the legend of the Hesperides there are two opposite accounts confused. According to one source, Herakles advances to Mount Caucasus, kills the vulture which fed on Prometheus, and arrives at Mount Atlas among the Hyperboreans. Here is an entirely different localisation of the myth to that in the western ocean. Mr. Fessenden, after tabulating the various myths, follows the Asiatic clue as the earlier, and considers that the Greeks lost the original view owing to geographical changes; then the myth was transferred to lands which had later come into prominence in the West. He notes that Homer and Hesiod had no knowledge of Spain or the Atlantic, that the description of the ocean of Atlantis will not agree with the later Atlantic, and that there is no submerged area to be traced there belonging to traditional times.

This view that Mount Atlas was Asiatic brings us to the geological standpoint of an “Asiatic Mediterranean” of the early Pleistocene, stretching from the Arctic Ocean to include the Black Sea and the Caspian. This region would be all flooded by the last great submersion to 600-feet level. The connection of the Caspian with the Black Sea lasted much later, and would only require less than 50-feet rise of sea-level to renew their unity. A tradition of this seems shown when Strabo mentions that some persons still believed in a connection of the Caspian with the lake Maiotis (Sea of Azov), the northern branch of the Black Sea. Various legends of Herakles, Atlas, and the Pillars of Herakles, are all, then, taken as belonging to the Black Sea region, and having been later transferred to the West, when the Greeks were familiar with their colonial expansion in Sicily, Italy, Spain and France. The various traditions of the Deluge are next compared, from five different sources, and all refer to the Black Sea or lands adjacent. The nature of the catastrophe involves a sudden rise of sea-level, of amounts up to 125 feet. The conclusion is that a tidal wave in the Atlantis Sea north of the Black Sea caused a rush of water, which flooded all the shores of the Caucasus and destroyed a civilisation in that region. Such was the source of the legends of Atlantis.

An entirely separate course of the new theories is the proposed Egyptian connection with the Caucasus. Until this year anyone viewing such theories from the Egyptian side would have felt them to be outside of reasonable consideration. But a fundamental change has come over Egyptian archaeology with the discovery of the earliest civilisation yet known, which appears to be akin to the Solutrean. The remote district of Badari has now entered into archaeological literature, as the seat of the Badarian culture, of a high type in its pottery and ability to glaze, and well advanced in figure working. Moreover, this is clearly the basis of all the following prehistoric civilisation of Egypt; it forms part of the continuity of civilisation in that land. If—as appears—this is derived from the same stock as the Solutrean culture of Europe, it must have travelled down from the Caucasus region, for the Solutrean work passed north of the Black Sea into Austria, Poland and northern France, without developing on the Mediterranean. Hence the groundwork of Egyptian civilisation—planted on an African people— is from the Caucasus; with it, presumably, arrived a strong stock of the people who brought it, as a mere trade influence could not be supposed to travel so far with such fundamental effect on most arts.

This entirely new outlook finds strong support in ancient statements. Herodotus insists on the resemblances between the Colchians—south of the Caucasus—and the Egyptians in appearance, in customs, and in products. The Colchians are said to be dark by Herodotus, Pindar and Euripides, and Homer and Hesiod speak of Ethiopians in Colchis. Unhappily no research is possible in that region of Georgia, as it is now tortured politically by the Soviet.

The earliest civilisation of Egypt being thus linked to the Caucasus region, we cannot disregard some resemblances of names which Mr. Fessenden brings forward, and which may be further extended. In the Book of the Dead the sun is said to rise over the mountain of Bakhau, and the modern Baku is at the eastern extremity of the Caucasus. The sun is said to set in Tamanu, and the Taman peninsula is at the western end of the Caucasus. Close by that is the lake of Maiotis (Sea of Azov), and the lake Maoti was close to Tamanu in the west (ch. xvii). The gate to the Eastern horizon is called Haukar (Nebseni, ch. xvii), “behind the head of Kar,” and from Colchis the pass to the east is behind the head of the river Kur (Gr. Kuros), which descends to the Caspian, past Tiflis.

Such resemblances of names are sufficiently consistent in their position and in their relation to the probable source of the Egyptians to require full consideration, although we know how easily verbal resemblances may mislead. Any such names brought into Egypt with the first civilisation would necessarily undergo localisation in new positions in and around Egypt. In the Caucasus region the natural fires of petroleum springs, both in the west at Batoum, in Colchis, and in the east at Baku on the Caspian, are claimed as the original idea of the lakes of fire in the Book of the Dead. Further, these fiery streams and marshes are taken to be the origin of the Greek Pyri-phlegethon; the rich valley of the river Alazon is taken to be the origin of Elysion, and Erebus is the dark defile of the pass through the Caucasus. The Odyssey contains a sort of guidebook to the petroleum region, and many other connections are claimed. Whatever may be rejected, there seems to be good ground for seriously considering what has been noted above and seeing how far legends and traditions can be substantiated by research.

FLINDERS PETRIE.

Readers should also familiarise themselves with Petrie’s paper on the Origins of the Book of the Dead reported in my Academia.edu page. 

Ronnie Gallagher

Kurgan

Atlantis

Just throwing this out there, but. Could Atlantis NOT have been from another planet, as in a UFO.

I don’t need any BS crap coming from anyone who thinks they know more than anyone else. This is a discussion after all. 

Is the story Plato told of the Atlantis tale not part of a Socratic dialogue, where he asks to meet a few guys and tell his story of the ideal state?

Why should everyone take this as being historically accurate?

I’m only asking this as the the story is preceded by an account of Helios son tying horses to his father's chariot and then driving them through the sky and scorching the earth. (another UFO type analogy) I mean rather than exact reporting of past events, the Atlantis story describes an impossible set of circumstances at the time which were designed by Plato to represent how a miniature utopia failed and became a lesson to us defining the proper behavior of a state. Which at the time was Athens, and it you look at the spelling of Athens the first 2 letters are AT, then we could have [ land is] ie. Atlandis, (Atlantis) Again this is just MY theory that Atlantis just didn’t exist, or if it did it was alien technology as in a UFO and was here maybe for a few months and dissappeared.

BS crap...

… says the guy suggesting alien technology and UFOs.  Have cerebral junk-mail filters become passe?

Marcus Aurelius

Discussion

Thanks Reasteven for reminding people that this is a discussion where all kinds of ideas and theories can be posted by interested people. Some people use the thread as a platform to be rude to anyone who may suggest something different to their theory. By acting like that they are exhibiting immaturity that is a tad imbecile.

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Atlantis Location
  1. 1. The Richat structure. It has the correct colours concentric bands of rock. I think it could have been filled with water. Its longitude is literally beyond Gibraltar. Being beyond the Pillars of Hercules may refer to the route of access. North Western Africa may have been separated from the rest of Africa by the Trans-Saharan Seaway, and would have been a huge island about the size of Australia, though this may have been too long. ago.
  2. 2. Tenochtitlan, Mexico CIty. The pattern of artificial canals may have been redesigned by the time of the conquistadors. 
  3. 3. Some islands in the Atlantic ocean have mountains that could have been said to be amongst the tallest in the known classical world. These include: Pico, Azores and Teide, Tenerife. We would be looking for mountains about as tall as Mount Olympos. Other islands with tall mountains include La Palma, Gran Canaria, and Madeira. There are several submerged seamounts in the Atlantic Ocean, some of which appear as islands on old maps. Off the coast of Portugal in particular.
  4. 4. Erlingsson proposed Ireland as Atlantis. Notably, the island has a central plain and perimeter mountains. It is possible that the island could have been inundated, perhaps by glacial melt water.
  5. 5. Rockall Plateau. Perhaps depression and rebound of the crust from glacial ice sheet weight could have had an influence. It seems to have an elevated perimeter.
  6. 6. Porcupine Bank, possible location of Hy Brasil.
  7. 7. The Dogger Bank could have been submerged by a tsunami after the Storegga Slides off the coast of Norway.
  8. 8. The bursting of Lake Agassiz is also worth mentioning as a possibly catastrophic flood event.
  9. 9. Parts of the Caribbean, Antilles, or Bahamas, now under the sea.
Younger Dryas Event

Graham Hancock nicely consolidates the accepted geological evidence of a cosmic collision 12,800 years ago shown in this map.  https://grahamhancock.com/ancient-cataclysm-hancock/   It’s not speculation that the sudden melting of the Arctic resulted in a rapid 400 ft (122 meter) rise in sea levels at that time.  Given that the majority of populatiomns tend to live near water, a 400 foot rise in sea levels would submerge most of the coastal plain structures and cities of that era.  Plato’s writings dated the “sinking” of Atlantis event to a time exactly coinciding with the Younger Dryas new ice age and sea level rise.    https://humanoriginproject.com/younger-dryas-event-extinction-prehistoric-period/ 

 

Love Learning the Previously Unknown
TheMrTTT

Mystery Schools

The Mystery Schools of the Lesser Mysteries and the Greater Mysteries talk about the past civilizations on the planet.  What then appears is:

(1)  Lemuria/Mu-I (400,000s – 100,000s BCE) destroyed by some greater unstated event

(2)  Lemuria/Mu-II and Atlantis-I (100,000s – 40,000s BCE) destroyed by some greater unstated event

(3)  Lemuria/Mu-III, Atlantis-II, and Egypt-I (40,000s – 12,000s/10,000s BCE) this would be that period of a cosmic CME, massive vitrification of rocks around the planet, instant glacial ice into steam into the upper atmosphere, and any later cooling effects of condensed upper atmospheric waters in the heavens coming down onto the planet (not the Flood).

(4)  Lemuria/Mu-IV, Atlantis-III, Egypt-II, and Greece-I (and the possibility of other places not mentioned in other fertile crescent locations) (12,000s/10,000s – ~1987 BCE) rogue moon captured, disruption of the atmospheric waters, the biblical Flood, and rising oceans

(5)  Lemuria/Mu-V, Atlantis-IV, Egypt-III, Greece-II (and other locations) post-Flood era (~1987 - 1207/1206 BCE)  rogue planet Venus flybys and eventual solar capture.  Humanity survives through this event.  Scattering of the American Noahics to Europe and other fertile crescent locations.

(6) Current era (1207/1206 BCE – today CE) … what civilizations and locations demised or survived in lesser status became our modern textbooks of ancient history and archaeology.

If the Atlantis destruction fits anywhere into these statements, then it is Atlantis-II that is talked about, with the same collateral foundation of Egypt-I and all such constructions of ancient pyramids, mega-statuary et al constructed in this time period.  Any foundations of Atlantis surviving down to the period of the biblical Flood – and probable demise therein.

 

 

Bathymetric map

For anybody wanting to see what the world (potentially) looked like at the Ice Age, one can get a bathymetric map, and then outline the margin of the ocean’s continental shelf, and that of the vastly sloping continental slope down to the abyssal floor.  That would show you (at maximum extreme) what the sea level was before any glaciers and ice melt happened (and a solar/cosmic CME happened that would have scorched and burned the equatorial regions of those areas.  One must also remove the Aral Sea, Caspian Sea, Sea of Azov, Black Sea, Mediterranean, Red Sea, Persian Gulf, the Baltic, the Caribbean, as these were oncle land locked and (as Robert Ballard has shown) there were multiple villages at the bottom of the Mediterranean, and other places.  One must also revisit the shorelines of Cardiff and the ocean shoreline forest that has SUNK (glaciers gone … island masses slowly rise UP !), and the English Channel that once was Doggerland, connecting both England and the continent.  That, amongst other smaller peninsulas and subsided regions around the world, would have been the source for where any pre-Flood, Ice Age existing Atlantis would have been found – below the glacial margin in the tropics and temperate zones.

Enoch!

If you want to understand anything like Atlantis, your search must be both BROAD and deep.  But you all keep digging deeper into dry wells.  Stop it.  None of that stuff leads anywhere at all.  You won’t find anything there.  Most of the stuff you parrot is just literally fiction pulled straight out of someone’s imagination anyway.  Mu indeed.  You’ll NEVER get anywhere that way.

So, for example, look up the Voynich manuscript.  See that fold-out with the nine circles?  Recognize it?  Those are the nine worlds of Yggdrasil, the nine heads of the 9-headed Naga, the 9 lights of the Hanukiah menorah, the nine figures of the Mount Nimrud ‘chess set’.  They are, in fact, the nine worlds of the post-diluvian solar system.

Now, how does that apply?  Because there were actually ten, and everybody knew it.  It was just rarely mentioned.  Enoch, for example explains the ten HEAVENS, as planets and their orbits, from the innermost (in his time) to the outermost.  Of the outermost, though, he says ‘we don’t discuss that because that is the face of God’.  And, no, it’s not a tenth planet.  What he means by the tenth sphere is the rest of the stars in the universe.  And this is entirely appropriate and correct because, to the ancients, the universe WAS God, and God was the universe.  It’s the age-old dichotomy in perspectives: Pantheism vs. Panentheism.  And it’s the answer to the ten kingdoms of Atlantis.

Y’all are making the same mistake our nuclear physicists AND our astro physicists keep making in that you keep looking down instead of up.  The source of the atom is not in the atom.  The power of the sun is not in the sun.  And Atlantis is no mere island, mountain, or obscure and remote formation on the earth.  But it’s not gone either.  You just don’t recognize it anymore.  The Atlantis you all are looking for *IS* the earth.  (Although the full truth is that the earth is just the reflection of the real, origital Atlantis, just as Egypt was, according to Herodotus, the reflection of heaven.)

You all look silly chasing your tails, only ever adding further confusion to the matter.

And you can stow that ‘thinks they know more than everyone else’ stuff.  Y’all are taking charlatans and fiction writers as gospel.  UFOs, aliens, magic, … what’s next?  Black holes?  The fifth dimension?

YES!  I DO know more than those who spread manure like that.

Marcus Aurelius

Atlantis

It is now very well known that the Atlantis island/continent existed and it was situated in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.Its final destruction took place around 13,500 years ago.Those who are lucky enough to have access to the Akashic Records could tell a lot about this subject.

 

Located in Peru

“Atlantis the Andes Solution” by J. M. Allen appears to have solved it.  Atlantis is right where Plato said it was.

  1. “Atlantis” refers to both the continent and the capitol city.  If we assume that it was the city which sank and not the whole continent, then South America fits the description.
  2. Plato said that a mountain range crossed the continent.  The Andes fit this description.
  3. Plato said that half way down the mountain range there was a large plane of a certain size.  Such a plane of that size exists on the eastern side of the Andes just south of where the west coast takes a bend to the south.  Just south of Sajama National Park.
  4. Plato said that the plane was criss crossed with canals which irigated the land and storing water from the rainy season for use in the dry season.  Remains of canals can be seen in arial photos of the plane.
  5. Plato said that Atlantis was located in the sea next to the plane.  Lake “Lago Poopo” is just to the south east of the plane.
  6. Plato said that the sea is no longer navigatable because the earthquakes which sank Atlantis caused it to fill with silt.  Lago Poopo can not be navigated because earthquakes in its history filled it with silt.
  7. The Egyption Priest said that the remains of Atlantis can be found in the many temples in the mountains which still existed.  The Andes are filled with temples whose builders are uncertain.

The book goes on with many references and details.

My take on Atlantis and related phenomena

It’s not just a matter of location. It’s also what Atlantis was: a transatlantic metal-trading empire, fueling the Bronze Age—I think with copper from my native Upper Michigan and tin from Tiahuanaco, in what is now highland Bolivia, but which was built at sea level. We do think Aztlan, or Atlan, as if was called, was an island in the Atlantic. Atlantis, I believe, was located on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, perhaps where the Azores are now, and sank during a Crust Displacement event, as Tiahuanaco was upheaved over two miles in a countering motion. All of this is recreated in my epic novel and film series, The Flood, a Tale of Atlantis. Our group’s startling scientific discoveries are presented in 24 nonfictional Author’s Asides interspersed throughout my three-part novel, which is available on Amazon. Also, based in part on what Inca descendants told me, as well as ancient accounts related by Sitchin and others, I think I know where the natural-born longheads came from: Tiamat, the former fifth planet from the sun. A watery world much like Earth, Tiamat was torn in two by the same celestial marauder (possibly a large comet) that would later cause our biblical Flood, as recreated in my story. Not only that. Furthermore, Tiamatians longheads mated with humans, producing the Aryans through transplanetary interspecific mating. All this and much else is explained at length in my novel, and will hopefully be brought to the attention of the global public through my film franchise, to be pitched to studios later this year. Our group, Genesis Quest, is attempting to prove all these things and more in irrefutable scientific terms, and with luck, we’ll have tens of millions of dollars in research funding, as we do have big investors aligned, alongside (I hope) major film proceeds. We shall see what the future holds! Thanks.

Dr. John R. Clevenger, Founder and Research Director
Genesis Quest
Santa Barbara, California, USA
Website: www.genesisquest.org
Check it out at Amazon.com: The Flood 1: Escape from Atlantis (Book 1 of The Flood: A Tale of Atlantis), Clevenger, John R.

More information as we see it as of now

I also strongly suspect the Tiamatians possessed super-technologies beyond the grasp of our modern science, including pyramid power, which increased agricultural yields, and a star-jump technology, used in the Vimana—the Inca descendants also told me that their people, the ancient Aryans, were the servants of the Serpent Gods, and that they had fled to South America from the Indus Valley after losing a war there, which considerable evidence suggests also involved nuclear bombs. Vestiges of the torsion-based star-jump technology remained in the hands of isolated populationss, including both the Aryans and the giants (who I guess were hybridized by Tiamatians too, perhaps with the Denisovans), who used it to build the megaliths.
Hence, I think we may have revealed the deepest secrets of prehistory—the key revelation being what I call my Tiamat Hypothesis, about which I’ve been in touch with NASA. Our chief scientist worked at NASA’s JPL for over 12 years. Based on inside information, he knows basically how that star-jump tech worked. So this is where our work stands as of now, as explained at length in the Author’s Asides in my fantastic but fact-based novel. Cheers.
 

Dr. John R. Clevenger, Founder and Research Director
Genesis Quest
Santa Barbara, California, USA
Website: www.genesisquest.org
Check it out at Amazon.com: The Flood 1: Escape from Atlantis (Book 1 of The Flood: A Tale of Atlantis), Clevenger, John R.

Theories about the Lost City of Atlantis

Hi All,

There seems at the time of Plato an agreement with the rest of the World that A Great City known as Atlantis had existed.
This concise understanding was through Oral History.

People are rather skeptical of Oral History people more or less wants visual proof and written proof of an subject like that of Atlantis and Plato.

Here is my perspective I did kind of dismiss the Atlantis Stories along with other stories such as Amazon's depicted in Ancient History; in reality, I should have been more respectful towards our distant Ancestor's.

It comes down to pin pointing the Timeline of Atlantis to begin with a general agreement is that what's now the Atlantic Ocean is where Atlantis once stood so how and why did it slip beneath what is today The Atlantic Ocean?

Plato spoke of the existence of Atlantis and how magnificent The City of Atlantis was till Atlantis disappeared never to be seen again too the deep of the ocean.

Plato it seems was speaking of that time period with Atlantis as though actual History.

From my perspective I do feel that The Bible itself is a History Book but, it gets overlook because it speaks of a Supreme Being in its Scriptures. I did read from three of The Bible's Prophet's Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel.

Interesting thing that caught my notice in Isaiah and Ezekiel is the reference to a all-power City ruled by a King of which warnings of... An yes this is The Bible for each of us to consider that would slip beneath the Waters and that the World will be astounded by what had befallen the City itself.

This place described in The prophet's Isaiah & Ezekiel passages speaks of an City that thrives that the whole Ancient World Marvel's after, they are Ecnomically together compared to the rest of the World.

Then one day this City is going to sink beneath the Sea. Listen I know it's crazy it may not be about Atlantis an Atlantis could have plunged beneath the Sea like I originally thought during The Great Flood.

A: Side Note (Mysteries of The Bible available on ytube: The Episode about The Prophet's of The Bible most impressive)

Now the only thing left is too measure the Birth of Plato in order to determine the Lost City of Atlantis demise. To pin down when Atlantis destruction came about.

After all, archeologist continues to find evidence that The Trojan War truly took place amongst the ruins and places where Troy once stood.

These are my thoughts on Plato and the Lost City of Atlantis.
If I recall something else I'll come back an share it. Until next time Everyone, Goodbye!

...why not the Gulf of Tonkin?

I know everyone thinks thinks the pillars refer to the Mediterranean, but these were only the Western Pillars. 

The Gulf of Tonkin has a volcanic island….. 

The island is the correct size…

The island is at the centre of the gulf...

and the geographical descriptions match….

I discussed this as a possibility in The Map That Talked.

Dr. Derek Cunningham
Author of:
The Map that Talked - How astronomy was used to map the ancient world
The Babel Texts - Decoding the early text of the Stone Age
Scotland and Shakespeare's Third Prophecy - Recovering Scotland's Forgotten past

Gulf of Tonkin

Hi Derek,

I can imagine that the island we now call Hainan has been host to several high civilizations throughout it’s history. The climate is mild and the soils are so rich and fertile. Seafaring people from all over the Pacific may have settled there and brought their technology and scientific knowledge with them.

I would also imagine that refugees from the sunken continent of Whaga or Pan would have arrived on those shores. ( I mention that in my reply to number 3 in this thread although I was trying to reply to Sonya in number 2)

The more I learn about ancient history the more I realise that cities and populated land masses have disappeared below oceans, seas and lakes all over the world. The story of Atlantis could be referring to any one or several of these cataclysmic events.

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