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Jeremy , you have several subjects mixed up there . Rectangles & Squares aren’t natural shapes , & the many other things you’ve mentioned are valid in themselves , but not on the subject at hand . You need to start studying the things you’ve listed , you know some aspects of the ancient sciences and some of religious practices. Knowing the terminologies is a good start , but I’ve been at studying all this sort of thing for years & am just beginning to scratch the surfaces of what ‘ it’s all about ‘ – I know I have a long ways to go ! And a hint as a friend in Ancient History here ; Please learn how to construct sentences with grammar that makes sense & one may follow , practice writing an actual story , & my words are meant as constructive criticism , do not be disheartened ; Be encouraged in ancient studies & to voice your opinions & thoughts honestly & in a straightforward manner . ( Don’t give up – We Need more people to read & research ! )
One shouldn't judged people for what they did in other times...
We're not as free to do things, as they were.
We'll probably never understand their level of freedom either. Freedom is something that we've lost a lot off in the last century alone...
Be that as it may...
The person who took the Marbles were free to do so, and at least they still exist...
Perhaps it was the best thing for them. Britain still a much better place for such objects to be in than to be in many of the places where such objects came from...
Such cultural heritage should be kept where they'll be save...
They cannot be replaced if they're lost...
Before returning anything to any place [this] , the safety and continued extence of the objects in question, should be considered above any returning of items to any place, doesn't matter the quantity of whining that may come out of such a place...
I agree we cannot insert our lexicon , or our ‘feelings’ into past actions , or figure past historical figure’s actions . There can, and by rights , be made concillatory gestures that may heal wrongful things done , and so , encourage a more peaceful world environment . The person may or may not have had the ‘ freedom’ to take the marbles ; since the occurrence , the consus has always been , they did not . “ Be that as it may “ . My suggestion to copy the originals by both parties , saving the originals in the proper environment – such as a museum could provide – is also logical , even relatively inexpensive , and both parties save face , but gain equally , and in the universal hope for peace ; recognition as being fair , and equitable . Lastly , whenever we speak of ‘ Freedom ‘ we miss the aspect of what ‘Liberty’ is , & what ‘freedom ‘ is not . ‘ Freedom’ indicates the ability to move about , but with sanction(s) . ‘Liberty’ , is without limitations of sanction(s) .. except those Sanctions as implied by Laws , agreed upon by a body of people ; the majority of which agree that siad Laws are beneficial to a majority . My belief is akin to what the Holy Spirit is to a supreme being’s ability to interact with His Creations
; His , and our connection with that entity . Hence , in a way , ‘Liberty’ Is The Oil , of Freedom(s) . Unless Liberty is an acknowledged given , ‘ Freedom ‘will always be subjectative to the whims of those who desire rule over others , Liberty having been ignored – a current movement that endangers the general state of peace throut the entire world .
To me it’s a no brainer. These marbles must be returned to their place of origin. It’s not about winners and losers and spoils, it’s about property that’s been removed and needs to be returned. The Scots had the same problem with the British over the Stone of Scone.
Considering the sad state the Elgin Marbles would be had they remained in Athens, the Greeks should be thankful the marbles have been protected all this time.
As it is true the British Museum has kept the Elgin Marbles in a protected and preserved state, the Parthenon Marbles still belong to the Greek people. I think they should be returned, but a plan for its conservation and preservation should be submitted by the Greek governmennt.
Return what was taken. Compensate for illegal possession by assisting in creating the correct preservation site in Greece. What if the British cultural and historical symbols were taken? Stop being mercenaries.
Many of those writing about the Elgin Marbles are judging historical figures by 21st century values, and are looking back at history through the wrong end of a telescope.
Theft has been around since Paleolithic people began collecting ‘stuff.’ Romans stole the Jewish Arc of the Covenant and Spain destroyed the Inca and Aztec Empires to get their gold. Napoleon and Hitler looted art treasures throughout Europe as a right of conquest.
The lack of sales receipt, the missing Turkish ‘firman,’ and other 21st century documentation leads many to accuse Elgin of theft. The Parthenon was in ruins after the explosion in 1687 and some would argue the Earl of Elgin saved the crumbling marble facade from destruction due to benign neglect. Greeks and Turks had an ancient blood-feud and the Parthenon had no advocates, like there are today. Government corruption was more prevalent in those days and Ottoman officials were probably paid to look the other way.
When placed in historical context, the world was much different when the alleged theft began in 1801. Egypt was in turmoil after Napoleon’s army and navy were defeated in 1798, and the unstable situation drew rogues and adventurers from around the world.
If it were possible for former colonial powers to return artifacts to their original owners, museums around the world would be empty. The Elgin Marbles are safe from being defaced with graffiti, pulled down and cancelled.
I forgot to mention one important factor, that is the financing of an eventual restitution to Greece. From old job contacts with the EU Raphael Programme on cultural heritages I know there was a problem there, with so much heritage in Italy and Greece and not so much in for instance my country Sweden. – “Will you please come up with at least something!” was the urgent plead by the program director, a nice man whose wife was superintendent of the Bothanical Garden in Firenze. Of course it is different now the UK is out of EU, but the question stays, who would be paying?
After this period of time, it is completely pointless trying to decide whether Elgin was legally entitled to the marbles, which he took to decorate his house in Scotland, or whether the Ottomans had the right to sell them.
The sculpted metopes of the Parthenon are internationally agreed to be an important work of art and a unique historical artefact. Some of the marbles are now in London and others in Berlin. Therefore the emphasis should be on what is the safest and most advantageous way to reunite the sculptures under one roof and display them most effectively.
The marbles were designed and constructed to be viewed on the exterior of the Parthenon and this would be the ideal context. This is sadly impossible now due to atmospheric pollution. Therefore the next best solution is for them to be displayed as close as possible to the original site, in a specially constructed air-conditioned environment. Luckily such a building is ready and waiting nearby the Acropolis where visitors can view both the Parthenon and the marbles that were made to ornament it.
The BM and Berlin Museums should have identical copies made that they can keep and display while the originals are returned to their rightful home where they can be appreciated as close to their original context as possible. There is no reason to believe they will not be as safe in Greece as they are in London.