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The Parthenon Marbles Controversy

There’s an ongoing archaeological dispute between Britain and Greece over the Parthenon Marbles. They are currently in the British Museum but Greece wants them back.

Also known as the Elgin Marbles, these 2,500-year-old sculptures once adorned the Parthenon temple in Athens. They were removed by the British diplomat Lord Elgin in the early 19th century, who claimed he had a firman (permit) from the Sultan, when Greece was under Ottoman Turkish rule. But their removal from Greece has caused a great deal of controversy and several requests have been made over the years to return them to the country.

A major source of contention is the legality of Lord Elgin’s actions, with some questioning whether he even had a permit. Others say that his actions should be judged based on the times in which he lived.

There’s also an ongoing argument regarding the fulfillment of repatriation demands. For example, one side says that cultural heritage should be returned to the country from which it came and the other side states that fulfilling these requests will empty the collections of the world’s greatest museums.

Finally, people on both sides of the Parthenon Marbles debate have questioned the ability of the other side to properly care for and preserve the artifacts.

What do you think should happen to the Parthenon Marbles? Where do you think they belong?


To the winner go the spoils

the winners always write the history, losers are soon forgotten


Elgin Marbles

While it is true, to the “losers go the spoils,” however, the Greek people are not forgotten and they are still a power force in the world.

Certainly not in any military

Certainly not in any military sense, they were a force to be reckon with in the past now they are a mere shadow of what they used to be


Thou shalt not steal.    (Of

Thou shalt not steal.    (Of course, people who have no religion or ethical values, just ignore).

Not winners nor losers

In this case it wasn’t a matter of winners or losers! Elgin sneaked them from the Ottomans although he claimed he had permission. He didn’t win them in a fight from the Greeks!!


We will never know if he had

We will never know if he had an agreement with the Ottomans, we will never know if he stole them, there is nothing written down

We weren't there

All we know is they are in the British museum now and they are in better condition if they had been left in their original position/place


Elgin Marbles

To be sure, had Lord Elgin not removed the magnificent sculptures from the parthenon and shipped them off to Britain, they surely would have crumbled to dust or been very badly damaged.  I believe he saved them.  However, lack of documentation for their “legal” acquisition while the Ottomans had control over Greece is highly suspect.  In my opinion, the marbles unquestionably belong to Greece and should be returned to the Greek people.  It would be an extraordinary goodwill gesture.

Parthenon Marbles

“ To the winner go the spoils “ may have been a valid ‘pass off ‘ of reponsibilty – in ancient times , & I understand it completely . However , it wasn’t in ancient times the spoils were taken , but it was during the height of arrogance by over-lording attitudes of countries that claimed  powers that claimed their powers were ‘ derived , even blessed by God ‘ - an absurd claim in view of said country’s abuses of the same ‘ God given ‘ responsibilties to their respective ‘colonies’ . It is therefore , time to rectify past errors in judgements & make right a wrong . It’d  give both countries a measure of mutual respect , something that is lacking thruout the world . The people of both countries also , will gain a measure of respect in that their governments have doen the right thing . 

Elgin Marbles

The Brits should return what they stole. It has become customary for European countries in the past to go to other counttries and loot their treasures.. Reparations should be made and any art objects, relics, etc that they have stolen should be returned. Shame on the British to ignore the demands of the rightful owners of the ancient art object.

That could be said of any

That could be said of any country, where they are, they are safe

remember the Arab uprising, the Egyptian museum was looted, some objects never recovvered

at least in the British museum they are safe

at the time it wasn't recognised as stealing, more like preservation

how many marble statues would have suffered from acid rain?

the obielisks the Egyptians gave to countries all over the world have, more so the one in Washington 


Parthenon Marbles

Indeed , the obelisk was given to the US , so were two others . The one in Central Park , & referred to as ‘ Cleopatra’s Needle ‘ was the only standing obelisk among the three & was placed at the exact coordinates as it was in Egypt , Further information on the transport & installation is on the net . What’s interesting is the status of the US’s obelisk as the only standing obelisk ;  a high ranking member of the then-new gov’t in Egypt decided the standing obelisk should go to the most recent (potential) world power with the most promising of right gov’t , England & France both having abused their powers extensively , in their respective colonies . No gov’t is without disrespect , all , have a long way to go to restore any claims that any are of  ‘Powers blessed by , or granted , by God Almighty – we have a lot to learn .As far as the marble’s longevity , cold-cast replicas could be replaced on the exterior of the Parthenon – IF – the restoration officials determine there’s enough supporting structre integrity present , the originals indeed , should be in a protected environment as many so adivise . Cold-cast replicas could & should replace the originals in England’s museum . Since the original quarrys are known , the material that is essential to replicating an original carved piece , can be uitlized , making the replica a near-exact piece : No Harm Done , & those that could be hung on the Parthenon’s exterior , could even be restored to an ‘ as original ‘ condition for the sake of authenticity . None of this would be difficult .


Parthenon marbles

I do not agree that the marble sculptures should have been removed from the structure, as this risked damaging the building, and of course depriving the city of its culture. However, Athens suffered acid rain pollution that would have damaged the marble if it had been left in place. It is usual for marble scuptures to be relocated indoors, for example the statue of David by Michelangelo. I think the solution may be a partial restoration by installation of replica sculptures

Acid rain? So there’s no

Acid rain? So there’s no tarpaulins in Greece? No umbrellas? They don’t have their own indoors areas, or Museums?

If they’re asking for it back, give it back. They can look after their own heritage.

Certainly not large enough to

Certainly not large enough to cover the Parthenon, which has suffered from acid rain (every marble outside has suffered from acid rain)

More people go to the British museum than most museums in the world

I’m happy with them being there, 

At the time it was the recognised thing to do, we can't be blamed for the past


They didn’t ship the whole

They didn’t ship the whole Parthenon to Britain, same thing.

They could keep the marbles in their own museum.

Who’s blaming for the past? Just do the right thing now.

Greek Marbles

Couldn’t agree more!

Greek Marbles

-"at the time it wasn't recognised as stealing, more like preservation
how many marble statues would have suffered from acid rain?"
1)Who said that? At the time was stealing.The preservation occured as excuse  the few late decades.At the time there were no acid rain so the 'preservation' wasn't really an issue.
-"Certainly not large enough to cover the Parthenon"!
1)How do you know that?
2)Did the British Museum cover the Parthenon?
3)Are you believe that they are not capable to cover indoors these exact parts of the Parthenon as British Museum did?
-"More people go to the British museum than most museums in the world"
1)So they will do if these parts were in Athens Museum!
2)The people going to British Museum to admire what?Others civilizations inheritance?Show some dignity please.The only reason seems to be that they'll lose income.

Of course, they should be

Of course, they should be returned to their country of origin, where they hold true cultural significance. They can still be viewed by those that chose to travel there to see them, or online, or via a replica. Both the material and the artisan, along with the cultural/spiritual inspiration are Greek. Its current abode is akin to a finding an olive in a dumpling.



elgin marbles

Considering they are now in the British Museum and well taken care of indoors, it would be most reasonable that they stay where they are and not risking any packaging, transport etc. In turn the  British should have good replicas made to complete and refurnish the Parthenon ( digitalized shows, etc). Given the Greeks will agree, of course.



Elgin marbles

In a perfect world, of course they should be returned to be on display where they were created.  Athens has the Parthenon and they have been attempting to restore it for many decades, although it sat in ruins for hundreds of years after it was blown up some four hundred years ago by the Turks and Venetians.  

But the real world is far from perfect.  These pieces of art are well preserved in a safe, readily accessible place in London, in a stable nation.  Millions of people for many generations have seen these precious carvings because the Brits have cared for and displayed them.  Greece may be relatively stable at the moment, but is not a stable nation over time.  Military coups, political violence, historic foreign military invasions, perpetual protests and demonstrations, near daily strikes, poor preservation techniques and harsh climate plague everything in Athens.  Feral dogs urinate on the precious antiquities, and the Greek caretakers will tell you that is perfectly fine because "they are Greek dogs and they have the right."

We do not live in a perfect world- if the global community of archaeology and history cares about the actual preservation of these antiquities, they will stop virtue signaling and recognize reality- to return them to Athens risks the same fate as Palmyra.  For the best care of these artifacts, they should be left where they are, in the British Museum, for future generations to appreciate.

The Parthenon Marbles Controversy

Hi All,

Uncovering the past is what Archeology and Anthropology all about the best discoveries I enjoyed learning about is the Discovery of The Lost Books of The Bible & The Dead Sea Scrolls.

I still can't deny the historical fact nefarious behavior has certainly been allowed to happen when removing Ancient Artifacts like Greece's Parthenon Marbles by that British guy from other countries.

This Action took place at a Time when both Britain & France were Hell-bent on inflicting Imperialism on Asia, Africa, and key places in Europe such as Greece.

Let me share to examples on why this Pillaging of Ancient Artifacts from Nations all over the Globe is distasteful, what I am reminded of with the Pillage of Partheon Marbles is something that's recently being challenged of Ivy League College's.

The haunting tragic infamous photos of two African Slaves A Man and Woman that happen to be husband and Wife has been fought over in the Court's by these two African Slaves in America Ancestors an which Hardvard refuses too give back sadly the Supreme Court in Massachusetts ruled against The Family and in minds view this is The Dred Scott Decision 1850's & Plessy VS. Ferguson 1896, in Louisiana.

It's a bitter blow because the 13th amendment Abolished Slavery yet somehow this injustice feels like we're still being Owned.

An photograph of two African Slaves will not be going home with their Ancestors who are alive today an thriving in 2021, as an African American, I find this quite offensive.

Another example, I would like too share is that Indigenous Tribes have forwarded an letter too once again Hardvard because it has been made unto their attention of illegal digging at their Ancestral graves.

Hardvard has pilfered the grave sites of their families and their people an the Nation's wants an investigation into the archeological digs taking place on their Sovereign Lands without their permission not only that when items are found they want them brought back.

According to the News Article I read about the Indigenous Tribe's launching an investigation of the digs taking place on their Land.

An they too like the family of those two haunting Slaves photo's they're taking the Case too Court as well I only hope an pray they'll have better luck than the African American family did getting those picture's back.

I think my feelings about what went down Greece the Ottoman Empire following the British guy who took The Partheon Marbles without permission (I'm highly suspicious about that permit), It's the Audacity & The Arrogance to think, One has the Right to take Ancient Artifacts.

Totally disregarding the feelings of Greece regarding this Rich heritage of the Greeks.

Archeology and Anthropology is incredible I still think an Ethical line needs to be drawn when removing A People's History handed down by Ancient Ancestors for centuries it's a sign of Disrespect what The British Lord did.

It's important to also note this was the Time when Britain was running around Colonizing Everybody from Africa to Asia stripping them of their Cultural Heritage is another way of saying this land, the people's artifacts dwelling within the Land belong to Us.

The Parthenon Marbles need to be given back too Greece that's all there is too it. I'll stop here for now when I'm reminded of something else I'll share with Everybody.

So until next time, Everyone, Goodbye!

The Parthenon Marbles Controversy

We will never know whether Lord Elgin saved the Marbles by stealing them, but for sure they are an important heritage of ancient Greece.  There is no practical reason for England to keep them any longer since it is absolutely possible to create an exact copy that can sit in place of the originals.  A good example of copying is the former summer palace of the German Kaiser in Alexandria, Egypt.  A copy of the marbles adorns one side of that palace.  I suggest that the original marbles be returned to Greece, if they really want them returned.  Perhaps Greece can lend the museum in England a historically important work in exchange, and also they can pay for the cost of a replacement reproduction and shipment of the marbles from England to Greece.

I don’t agree with rewriting history by penalizing the present for the sins of their parents.  Countries or people who want their historically important items back can commission exact replicas and create museums which depict exact copies that can’t be detected by the human eye.  The same would go for photos, books, etc..


There are copies

Lord Elgin made plaster reliefs of the marbles before they were given to the British Museum.

Chris M.

The Parthenon Marbles Controversy

Hi kjcarroll,

Why should Greece create exact replicas of their Ancient Parthenon Marbles, The Parthenon belongs to Greece, if it anyone should create replicas of The Parthenon Marbles then it ought to be Britain and Britain keeps the replicas while Greece gets the original Parthenon back.

Argument it shouldn't of been taken in the first place to begin with but it happen and now a grave injustice must be rectified by Britain to Greece.

I guess that's all I have to share on this Subject about the Parthenon Marbles other than the sins of the father's fall upon the generation's. Well kjcarroll until next time, Goodbye!

Elgin Marbles

The thieving, royal boot-licking Brits are the possessors of the world’s biggest collection of loot at the British Museum.


This post has nothing to do with debating the topic

Chris M.

Elgin Marbles

Whether these artifacts were looted seems a matter of opinion, but the British Museum has done a very good job preserving and allowing the general public to view them.

As  for royal-boot-licking, it seems Yanks of all stripes admire our royal family, unless of course you are in the Meghan Markle camp; indeed, at various times the  Septics have had their own hereditary clans ruling them: The Roosevelts, Kennedy’s, and more recently the Bush brain trust. 

Then again even with genocide on their hands, the Yank has always made sure their various museums abound with “Native-American” artifacts. 

Lawrence Ash

Elgin Marbles

Elgin Marbles 

Whether these artifacts were looted seems a matter of opinion, but the British Museum has done a very good job preserving and allowing the general public to view them.

As  for royal-boot-licking, it seems Yanks of all stripes admire our royal family, unless of course you are in the Meghan Markle camp; indeed, at various times the  Septics have had their own hereditary clans ruling them: The Roosevelts, Kennedy’s, and more recently the Bush brain trust. 

Then again even with genocide on their hands, the Yank has always made sure their various museums abound with “Native-American” artifacts. 


Lawrence Ash

Lawrence Ash

Not All "yanks" are the same

Mr. Ash, It is indisputable the British Museum has taken EXCELLENT care of the Elgin Marbles. That was not in question. As an anthropologist, I believe it is time they go back to Greece where its people, especially the children, who cannot afford to travel to your museum can see their ancient history. It is only through knowing and understanding our past that we are able to fully know and understand who “we” are. 

Being a very distant relation to the royals prior to George, I bear high regard for the Royals, for Britains institutions and structures. Farbeit for me to counter accuse anyone’s country of the very thing caused by British colonialism in not just America but in other countries as well.

The United States has made amazing moral and ethical strides in how it handles and stores artificacts. The Native American Graves and Repatriation Act (NAGPRA) provides all grave goods in museums be returned to the tribes of origion when possible. And, when Native American artifacts are found at a construction site, etc., a Native American Tribal representative must be called to the site for inspection and the identification of said artifacts and possible grave goods. 

Perhaps you should learn about our archaeological rules and get to know who we really are before you make generalizations. And, it would be nice to discuss the Elgin Marbles rather than discuss your personal feelings about Americans. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Chris M.

Parthenon Marbles

Chris , Well said !

Elgin Marbles


Lawrence Ash

Parthenon Marbles

There are valid points the Parthenon marbles remain in in England , there is also Greek heritage to consider , and their desire to complete the restoration of the Parthenon to an ‘as most original ‘ as possible .   There is weathering to consider ; that , if the marbles are re-installed , they will be subjected to .   My personal opinion is they should be returned , what the Greeks decide to do is completely up to them .  What I would recommend ;  That molds be made before they are shipped so that the museum doesn’t lose ‘ an exhibit ‘ which is really what they have been , for many years ; a rather high-handed and typical pretentious assumption by a man who was overly class-conscious by demonstration of what amounts to , frankly –  theft of a nation’s heritage .   The cold-cast molding process can reproduce the panels exactly in the now-available materials that are cold-cast .  ( These methods do reproduce high-quality works of art and have been manufactured and sold thruout the world for many years and are objects of interest in thousands of homes who’s owners treasure the works they could otherwise be unable to ever afford ) .   Greece should do the same and return the originals to a museum with similar environmental air conditioning methods , as most museums world-wide do .   The Mold Reproductions ( for re-hanging ) could even be returned to an ‘ as original state ‘ before they are re-hung , satisfying any esthetical desires for originalities appearance .   It’d be far more practical , a show of real grace between peoples of two nations , & soothe the international furor that has festered over the arguments for all these years , and it would be done with the scientific approach towards environmental consideration to longevity .   I think the Brit museum could handle their side of the reproductions , and the Greeks theirs , meanwhile simply split the shipping & insurance costs by each side ponying up their equal shares . ( And “ git ‘er done ! )


The Parthenon/Elgin Marbles.

Through out history, the British Empire made it a habit and almost a matter of culture to abscond with historic artifacts of the counties they felt obligated to try and colonize.Not only Greece but Egypt is a monumental example of the British need for artifact aquirement. I have been to the Parthenon, and I feel that the Elgin Marbles would be much more of a profound exhibit in their natural setting

When does it become

When does it become archeology and nit grave robbing ?

How many years have to pass ?

Egypt is now trying to reclaim so of the achefacts that were taken over 100 years ago

China is scouting auctions trying to get a lot of their treasures back

China is paying for them, Egypt is just demanding them back (they have so much tucked away, they can never show it all, even with their new museum)


Countries have a right

It's all about the history and heritage of a people in a country. In the two countries you mentioned, early man has a strong presence. There is an incredible amount of history. Yes, they want to recover their history, but it's history that was taken from them. Not purchased or freely given.

Chris M.

In the US, fifty years old is

In the US, fifty years old is the cutoff for archaeological sites.  I guess the thing that differentiates it from grave robbing is the permitting process.  Most of the bodies excavated nowadays are reburied fairly quickly also.   

I can get behind archaeologists removing bodies for reburial, as opposed to leaving them to be bulldozed during a construction project.  But storing them in boxes and putting them on display to be gawked is horrifying to me.



Hi. The actual age cut off in the US is 100. Also, in the US, most remains dug up are either Native American or African American in which as you have stated they are reburied, but given appropriate burials according to their tribes or community. Please note I said most, not all. Also the cut off age relates to sites with human remains.

Chris M.

Thanks for the clarification,

Thanks for the clarification, you are right, fifty years for historic artifacts and 100 years for human remains.

Since for the most part, burials are avoided unless it is a salvage operation, and then reburied, I wonder what the deal is with those private field schools, like Crow Canyon.  But this is getting way off topic, so I will leave it.

Knowledge is valuable

Hi again elrotto,

This link covers all laws pertaining to archeology/anthropology in the US. Having no desire to be right, I do believe people should have access to correct and true information. You are a very bright person, you do know a lot. I hope you find this interesting.

Chris M.

I am wrong all the time, and

I am wrong all the time, and I love being corrected!  I really appreciate you posting that link as well, there is a lot of popular misunderstanding about the boring parts of archaeology.  And I am as guilty of that as anyone.

Pretty much I was just thinking back on my personal experience in the field.  It was a long time ago, though, and lots of things have changed I am sure.  There is also that sensitive area between what is supposed to happen and what actually happens, but that is another issue entirely.  I look forward to getting up to date on the legal particulars.  

It has been nice bumping into someone who actually knows this stuff!

Being wrong is a blast!

elrotto, I love being wrong as well. I can’t think of a better way to grow. I think it is common to get excited about archaeology until one has to actually do it. It is hard work and often takes a long time to find more than one or two pottery sherds.

The discussion about the Elgin Marbles becomes inflammatory on both sides because of opinion. Until UNESCO came into being, antiquities did not have much protections except for what countries provided them by laws. Some dishonest archaeologists sold their finds to the highest bidders or kept them for their private displays never thinking about the cultural impact to the local society. Colonialsim has not affected just the United States but other parts of the world and more drastically by way of not keeping physical remnants of ancient history and heritage in the countries of origin because the British think it all to be theirs. The Parthenon Gallery of the Acropolis Museum was built specially to house the Elgin Marbles and the antiquities from the Parthenon of which it overlooks. Why anyone would think they wouldn’t be safe or well cared for is beyond my comprehension. 

Not only is it nice to bump into someone who knows this stuff, but to someone that cares about it.

Chris M.

So many sacred sites were

So many sacred sites were specific to the area, as well.  They didn’t build the Parthenon in any old random spot, it had a specific meaning.  Context matters.  

It was wrong to take the marbles.  It was wrong of the British Museum to buy them.  It is wrong to keep them now.  The argument that they are better cared for is irrelevant, in addition to being arguable.  

It’s bad enough to steal, but to justify that by insulting and slandering the victim is cruel and patronizing.  I feel like an irritated mother sometimes, the house is a mess and the kids are all squabbling.  It’s time to clean up, put everything back where it belongs, and take a fresh look at things.


Parthenon Marbles

Hi Chris , I just reviewed a number of Comments on the subject & noticed you have a couple noteworthy Replies , indeed the archealogy in the US is stifled with the Smithsonioan’s ’ only from Colombus on ‘  but , the trends are increasingly moving towards ‘ WE WANT TO KNOW MORE ‘ (!) , The Smithsonian’s attitude , not surprisingly is also following this , but the seem ‘ institutionally sluggish ‘ . I’ve read some information that was told by fishermen in the Chesapeake , that in the early morning hours as the fishermen moved their boats out to the traps & so on , that a boat was out already & , dumping what appeared to be bones into the water . My guess is the institution was ‘enforcing’ their policy , Disgraceful actions by a publically funded body – a coverup of essential history . The institution , when it established its American Archealogy Dept  , made John Wesley Powell the head ; a man who’s claim to fame was that he had navigated the Grand Canyon’s river system – that’s it . From that point on , whatever discoveries of monuments , gravesights , and such , were officlally quashed , This , I beleive , in view of ‘official policies ‘ also determining the welfare – or exterminatiion of the tribes here , the same as England’s shabby treatment of any ‘ Tribe ‘ the Crown deemed as ‘lower & unworthy’ of representation or way of life . One would expect ‘ the new world ‘ to have offered more , but it’s taken a long time for any actual education to be ‘unearthed’ ! Here’s to Enlightenment & upholding of Truth in Archeaology ! Thanks for your inputs ! Mike ( A Scot/Dane/French/Cherokee & All - American “ Heinie “ ! )



Were’nt the locals tering the place apart to put the marble ‘to better use’ building houses, walls, etc. at the time?  or is that just a myth?  but if so, they were saved, not pillaged 


Where the blame lies

I have seen and admired the Parthenon marbles at the British museum many times. They are beautiful art. From what has been reported, the Ottomans, who at the time ruled Greece allowed these national Greek treasures to be ripped from the Parthenon and taken away by the British. Whether Lord Elgin had a bill of sale or not, the Ottomans were the ones to let these marbles leave Greece. Therefore since they controlled everything at the time this event happened, they bear full responsibility for their leaving Greece. Since the Ottoman Empire no longer exists, we need to ask who inherited the Ottoman legacy, and that of course is current day Turkey. Of course as is common practise the Turks toatally deny being responsible for this calamity, just like they deny all the atrocities commited by the Turks under the guise of the Ottomans. The Turks are responsible because the compensation paid to purchase these marbles entered the coffres of the Ottomans, which then was taken over and benefited modern day Turkey. The British at the time legally purchased these marbles, otherwise they could never have been able to ship them to London. But these days Greeks see London as a low lying fruit compared with the Turks. So. the debate goes on...

Elgin Marbles

   I would encourage all who have not done so to read the “The Elgin Marbles” by the late Christopher Hitchens before taking a position this emotional, contentious issue.

Thomas Ambrose

Greece should have the marbles

Perhaps Lord Elgin "saved" the marbles. Perhaps he didn't. The Ottomans destroyed the Parthenon and it is doubtful they were going to salvage anything. Yet anything is possible.

That said, in 2009, Greece built the Acropolis museum. The Parthenon level faces the Parthenon with glass walls to view the structure among the statues and the friezes (group of marbles that create a total image or story). The museum is climate controlled. There is absolutely no reason that Greece should not have the marbles returned to them. Those claiming the marbles won't be protected from "acid rain" should understand it does not rain indoors. And, if these antiquities were to be placed in the Parthenon itself which is doubtful, Greese has substantially reduced its carbon emissions with new laws geared to slow climate

I belive UNESCO should have some input on the fate of the marbles. I also believe anthropologists and archeologists have an ethical responsibility with the country they are working in when it comes to artifacts.

Chris M.

For the best preservation

As we've seen in recent Middle Eastern conflicts, some areas of the world are not 'healthy' for historical artifacts. I side with relocating ALL antiquities to countries where they have the best chance of surviving intact!

I'm seeing the same destructive powers at work in the USA at present with idiots tearing down history. You can't rewrite history BUT you can learn from it!

From stardust I was born, to stardust I shall return

Anything that's heavy that

Anything that's heavy that has anything to do with any type of site like a temple or a sacred place dedicated to some God or something shouldn't be removed to begin with, and definitely should be replaced be . it honestly has to do with the amount of weight the structure has on what's in the ground underneath it. it's shape it has to do with energy, how the energy moves, and how it moves through the water underground, around whatever materials may be present that it flows around . the weight from the structure on top of the conductive materials (crystal,granite usually but not exclusively) what increases the size of the energy field, or the Torus around whatever conductive materials are in deposited in the ground there. If something or things are moved too much or taking away too much the sky basically falls the trees get smaller everything is smaller and may cause things like earthquakes and landslides and other strange things like the heat from the sun, causing fires. I guess I'm going to have to try to write all this out and explain to you and give and show you like physically how this whole ancient system of temples and sacred spots actually worked to benefit everyone.

Jeremy forlines