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Out of Place Artifacts

I'm sure most of you here know that many ancient artifacts have been unearthed around the world that do not fit into the accepted theories of human history.  Take a look at two such artifacts found in Southeastern Arizona in the past decade at the link below.  They appear to be Oldowan Tools, ancient stone tools used by such proto-human species as Homo habilis and Homo erectus.  Yet, history says these species were never in North America.  So how do these artifacts get into a dry river bed in Arizona, USA???  I will be interested in reading your observations, theories, and opinions.

http://sanpedroinstitute.wordpress.com/out-of-place-artifacts/

 

That's very interesting. I'm

That's very interesting. I'm no historian. Just a history buff. But If you go further and further in history, you see more and more legends of flying ships and air ships and things of that nature. Maybe these "proto-human" species were way more advanced than modern historians give credit. Say people did have flying ships way back then was factual. It would be one good way to establish a trading network that could span the entire globe.

Peace and Love,

Ricky.

And that would raise the

And that would raise the question....."Are we de-evolving rather than evolving?"  

 

Are we de-evolving...?

A lot is explained in "Genesis Revisited: Is Modern Science Catching up with Ancient Knowledge?" by Zecharia Sitchin. Then there are The Earth Chronicle books (starting with Book I - The Twelfth Planet) that explain just about any anomaly or mystery you can think of.  Here was someone who made it his life's work to try to get the messages out. Thoroughly recommended if you want to be enlightened. Believe it or not, but his scholarship, mainly rejected by academia, will get you thinking.

RB you and I have a lot in

RB you and I have a lot in common I think! I did have another idea though, isn't it even remotely possible that someone found the tool in there own exploration and took it with them. Maybe they thought it was cool or wanted to show it to someone...and okay maybe this wouldn't work on over ocean voyages but why not. In a way we still do that with these sites and artifacts. We don't build a museum where we found them. We clean them up and take them to a central location. 

love, light and blessings

AB

logical thnking. for tools to

logical thnking. for tools to constitue  a native socaity there should be a fair amount of them and prefarbliy a constration in specific areas, also the the region would have the natural rocks it comes from.

Peace..........

OOPART, Inconvenient Remains, MO to WA

While attending Army Drill Sergeant School in 1996 at Ft. Leonard Wood (Lost in the woods) MO, I palled up with another student who was, as I, more interested in the outdoors than the "night life". We started exploring the Big Piney River, East of the base's cantonment area, where we discovered a series of caves along the East bank, one of which allowed unfettered access while the other one nearby (perhaps two, from
what I can remember) were heavily barred to prevent entry. One day, while scouting the hillside in the area, we were hailed by a local conservation/parks ranger, who warned us against looking for 'Indian' artifacts. We asked him about the barred up cave(s), and he told us that while many in the area were closed to protect endangered bats, the one(s) that we found contained mummified remains that looked to far out-date, (and were not related to) our 'current' "Native-Americans". In his opinion, the caves had been sealed, not because of the claim of sacred burial, but due to the inconvenience that they posed to both 'accepted' anthropology and "Native-American" legitimacy.

This also runs parallel to the sordid story of "Kennewick Man" in my native State of Washington. Where local tribes have stopped and sealed archaeological digs when the findings brought the "native" heritage into question. It's very depressing to see truth obscured for petty opportunistic politics.

 

NMN

Your story gives me reason to

Your story gives me reason to consider the moral issues of breaking a law in order to prevent and or change a bigger wrong. Do you think the public has an unfiltered right to access sources of information important to them as a species, and if so, would that give any one the moral high ground if in accessing information they were guilty of trepassing ? When I read about the caves and the bars I could not help but think about hacksaws in the dead of night. What do you think?

Was it moral to hide TRUTH in

Was it moral to hide TRUTH in the first place?  Why should humanity not be allowed to know its true history and origins?  The "powers that be" are merely SELF appointed and who are they to dictate to the masses who demand TRUTH?  I think our species has an absolute right to have access to sources of info important to us as a species.  It is a HUMAN RIGHT in my estimation!  Hacksaws in the dead of night??  I'm with you!!

 

I don't believe that breaking

I don't believe that breaking and entering would be at all helpful, and would probably serve to discredit one's cause. The way to do it would be to play the political game, by getting a broad base of support and petitioning those responsible for preventing access. If that doesn't work, track down which politicians are complicit in enabling the prevention of scientific study of these sites and see to it that they're run out of office in coming elections.

NMN

Unfortunately we hear of this

Unfortunately we hear of this same scenario too often.  There is a find that could be historic or monumental, but gets pushed into some dark corner and covered up to be forgotten about.  

I have strong feelings as to why this happens, but that is for another thread.

 

kennewick man

New news, Keniwick Man was from Japan.

jim

hiding stuff

I will be so happy should people finally allow their minds to accept and bring forth the truth whatever  it is.

 

Nisa Carroll Burkay

You mention one of several

You mention one of several sites around the country, indeed the world, that have nicely been sealed off as they just don't fit the current notion of human history or pre-history.  Real science is SUPPOSE to follow the evidence WHEREVER it leads, but sadly we don't have much REAL science today.  Instead what we have is CRAP science (sorry but "junk" just isn't a strong enough term for this farce).  

Kennewick Man is an intereting case.  It's been proven beyond doubt that the remains are NOT Native American even remotely but that they are those of a more European type.  Now barred from further investigation we shall never know what he was doing in what is today Washington State.  Yet, the mere fact that such remains were found in the American Northwest should tell us all, firmly, that our history is a LIE!

Thank you forrest for the information and also thanks to all of you who have taken the time to comment here.

Peron

 

Human Fallacy

Sadly, "modern science" has been corrupted by political and monetary (same thing really) graft. Grants are awarded more for 'proving' a predetermined conclusion which provides some kind of largess, rather than for those adhering to strict scientific principle. But this has been a problem throughout history, if one looks back. All I can say about most of our mainstream 'science' is to "follow the money" and take it all with a good dose of scepticism, for scepticism is the foundation of science, and when you hear the claim that the "science is settled", it probably is anything but (and someone's graft is at stake)!

NMN

Follow the money indeed.

Follow the money indeed. Unfortunately money, power and personal benefits guide most of Science today. Science has become like a religion...

The 'Religion of Science"

Really it's all about the religion of human nature and its baser instincts, take the "Global Warming/Climate ChangeTM" scaremongering for example. We can look at the 400,000 year temperature records from polar ice core samples, such as Vostok, and plainly see that there has been a series of four peak warming periods, the last three which were followed by periods of severe glaciation. We can even zoom in on more recent historical temperature data and see that the Holocene, Minoan, Roman, and Medieval warm periods were all actually warmer than today, and that we are at the very bitter end of the latest warm period, and yet there are those in our scientific and political community who are invested in stirring up fear for graft. We, as a civilization, are really not any more enlightened than those who censured Galileo.

NMN

Out Of Date Theories

Those are very interesting indeed.

I think the one of the most revealing incidents involving artifacts that directly contradict prevailing theory is one that took place during the California Gold Rush, at Tabletop Mountain. Miners had found gold-bearing gravels deep beneath the mountain, under multiple layers of basalt, and a lot of tunnels were dug beneath Tabletop as a result.
Gold was not the only thing miners were finding down there, however. Reports kept coming out of discoveries of human bones and artifacts like stone tools, as well as "fossil ground" which is basically fossilized topsoil, and petrified vegetation.
Eventually the reports drew the interest of the geologist who was the head of the United States Geological Survey for California at the time. He went to many mines, investigating the claims of the miners, and found many of them to be credible. Once it became known that he was interested in such finds, miners who found something interesting would stop working that tunnel until he could get out there to see the discovery in situ.
Overall, he investigated dozens of discoveries, many of which he was able to actually see in place. Eventually he published a monumental paper on the subject, including pictures and detailed descriptions, of the many human bones and tools found beneath Tabletop Mountain, in strata which is conventionally dated at 50-90 million years old.

The authenticity of the discoveries listed in the paper and the reality of the artifacts was never called into question, nor was any of the work he had done in identifying and cataloguing them. Knowing how controversial the paper would be, he had been meticulous in his attention to detail, so the content of the paper was, for the most part, unassailable, as was his credentials and expertise.

So the paper recieved mostly silence from the academic community.

One notable exception was a response from an eminent archaeologist who said, in a very convoluted word salad style which I will only paraphrase here, "Regardless of what you found, you should have considered how damaging it is to prevailing theory, and not published your paper."

And there it is, the heart of the matter. There are no such things as "Out Of Place Artifacts". There are only Out Of Date Theories.

We do not know our real

We do not know our real history. History was always been written by those who rule. And they have always dictate what to write :) It's the same as it is now. Do we really know what is going on now around us? How many things are hidden from our eyes?

Zaira I feel the same way and

Zaira I feel the same way and it's hard to explain to some people without sounding a little crazy. Notably, my own mother. She thinks I worry about things too much. That's why I'm glad to have found this community of people to share ideas with! :)

love, light and blessings

AB

Tsurugi you've said it in a

Tsurugi you've said it in a nutshell by saying, "There are no such things as Out of Place Artifacts.  There are only Out of Date Theories."  

I have a relative who has worked in the mines all his life as a miner.  He has seen things down in the mines that are astounding.  He and his crew too have found human bones fossilized and far under the Earth.  In one mine he worked in they found what appeared to be a fossilized part of a bridge.  It was covered up, the shaft was sealed, and nothing more was said.  So instead of the powers that be following the EVIDENCE wherever it leads it is all nicely swept under the carpet in favor of some balled faced LIES and CRAP science!  And that is what infuriates me the most!!  Lies and Junk Science!  Our history as we have been told is a lie and there is absolutely no doubt about it.  And for some "odd" reason the powers that be don't want us to know the truth about our lineage.  Reason?  Because should we ever discover the REAL TRUTH all those who are the powers that be won't be in power for very long and of this I am 100% certain.

Yes, history is written by the victors not the losers and what is written is dicated to the scribe whether it is true or lie  it makes no difference.  And the humble scribe simply writes down what they are told to and, thusly, the lie is born.  What an absolute FARCE!

 

 

Roberto,

Roberto,

Wow, a fossilized bridge, holy crap.

I am friends with a family who's business is mining, they have all been in that business for generations. They have told me some interesting stories of finds in the deep earth, artifacts and fossil forests and stuff but nothing like that! Wow.

I do remember a report from a coal mine, in North America, where they found what they said was a "wall" of "polished cubes" of concrete. They were two miles beneath the surface at the time.
And yes, the mine was subsequently shut down and all the miners moved to different locations.

My question is, why? What does a mining company care if they find something that goes against accepted theory in one of their mines? They aren't scientists, they don't have pet theories or doctoral theses to protect.

Mining companies

They only care that they will have to suspend mining operations while the artefacts etc are examined in situ, reported on, discussed - and then probably covered up! Again, it comes down to MONEY. Mining companies are the same as some farmers and other land-holders, they don't want to report finds and have their work held up, academics traversing their properties, and the possibility of areas being 'quarantined' from further digging.

"Because should we ever

"Because should we ever discover the REAL TRUTH all those who are the powers that be won't be in power for very long and of this I am 100% certain".

This is exactly the reason. And it is the same reason that they want people to believe that there is no intelligent life in the Universe – when inside the scientific circles they know that this is not possible. The same reason the so many efforts for free and green energy are buried. The same reason why natural cures are hidden. And I can go on and on.

Too much power has been gathered in the hands of few and if this doesn’t change the truth will remain hidden from the majority. And I say hidden from the majority because those in control of the situation know what the truth is.

What we know about our history is probably far from the truth. The victors always rewrite history for their own benefit. And when we don’t know our history we repeat the same mistakes again and again … and those in power use the same techniques to control people and their beliefs again and again. That's the story of mankind ...

And they want us to believe

And they want us to believe there is no other intelligent life in the universe DESPITE the FACT that if you figure it out mathematically the odds of other intelligent life in the universe outweigh by FAR the assumption that we are the only such life!!  Yes the "powers that be" who run everything know the truth and what they fear most is the masses of humanity finding out the same truth.

As for mining companies and their interest in covering up artifacts that don't belong?  They're called "mine inspectors" who make reports to the official powers that be.  The odd find is reported and the order comes down to the mining company to seal the site.  And if the mining company doesn't comply?  Well, you know, there are MANY of those little pesky things called "fines" that can be imposed and if that doesn't work the state mine inspectors can shut the whole operation down over some "violation" real or contrived.  The mining companies just do what they are told as do MOST other industries on this planet.

 

Not too fast

Why on earth would "an elite" hide some kind of truth? What power would come out of it? What would they REALY benefit from keeping a secret? Think about it real hard, leave your conspiracy glasses behind. What would it changes for you -or the whole of society- to know that our civilisation is not, let say, the first to occupy our planet or that ET exist for real? Would you stop respecting the law? Paying tax? You would change your moral code? Would you become a reckless unproductive citizen? I guess not. Life will go on.

No scientist is trying to hide anything. Scientist are “normal” people, and when one can challenge an established theory, he does so. Like an actor playing Shakespeare or a politician winning the white house: it’s the holy grail of their job. Science is an evolving process. Theories -evolution, big bang, name it- change over time as facts are unravelled. So is the story of mankind. It is not a closed book, many chapters are still to be deciphered. This is why so much awe comes out of it. It is not because one guy (with no expertise) pretend that he found something that looks like a human bone down in a mine that one should believe the story of our civilization is “hidden”. It feels like a dark age priest screaming “possessed!” in front a mentally ill peasants.

We are only human, Mankind is beautiful. 

Cheers, 

 

Graft

Follow the graft...

NMN

I think too that mining

I think too that mining companies would object to archeologists getting in the way and possibly stopping them from any work, it's easier to hide the evidence from the scientific community. 

I firmly believe that there

I firmly believe that there are countless truths out there that both big money and religion do their best to keep hidden from us. 

Why?  Because it will destroy the foundation of control they have built their empires on; whether it be earthly remains, or intelligent life from outside of our planet.

Knowledge is power, plain and simple.

It's all about control of the

It's all about control of the masses of humanity.  YES, knowledge is power and the reverse of that is no knowledge means no power.  And the masses stand in the second category, sadly.  

Their reputations and

Their reputations and theories would be proven wrong. Theories that have been accepted wholeheartedly by academia will be turned upside down. Their jobs would be on the line. Everything they have worked for would be proven wrong. I recommend you read Sitchin. The ancients left us messages and he has decoded them.

As above, so below. An old

As above, so below. An old saying in line with microcosm, macrocosm.It was coined more to illustrate the cohesion of the mundane with the spiritual but it works for Time as well. Take any state of being or set of circumstances and you will find it's paralell anywhere in time. We have right now, on this planet a spectrum of humanity ranging from blowgun hunters in the Amazon to Swiss professors at a particle accelerator, and just about everything in between. There is even room for me, although I am closer to the blowguns. So even in our most distant past, this would hold true. You don't have to envision a homo erectus using a laser micrometer, the thought of which is amusing. There are soooo many variables; Whole cultures could be missing from the fossil record if their buirial practices were designed NOT to leave a trace. How well does a skeleton fare after burning on a pyre for 8 hours and then being pulverized to fit into an urn? Water burial would ensure scarcity as well. Ritual canabalism, Tibeten monks have been, in the past, chopped up and fed to the vultures as a form of humility. Some native Americans arranged their dead on elevated cots in the open air. Not good for preservation.

     Ancient man was, I'm sure, way more mobile than we give him credit for. The Pyramids and great Cities and Temples, while impressive by themselves, also tell us of a well oiled, working supporting technology. The existence of these structures without supporting technologies would be like space travel without a full understanding of aeronautics, chemistry, physics, metal fabrication, biology......see?

  Some say conspiacies are ficticious and occult knowledge is the thing of novels. If this is true than we have still much work ahead of us because that means no-one knows enough to make sense of it.

 

Excellent comments and

Excellent comments and insights John Dale!  Conditions must be just so for things to become fossilized and if they aren't then there is no fossil formation.  I've often wondered might not the "Old World" be the "New World" and might not the New World really be the "Very Old World?".  

The Gods of Eden

Roberto,

On the subject of "why suppress knowledge", I agree with you for the most part. The areas where our opinions differ, I think, have to do with who, exactly, is behind it all. My working concept at the moment is somewhat along the lines of what John Keel said in his investigations into these things.

If you're interested in a very complete treatis on the subject, you might look for a book called Gods of Eden. IMO, the guy who wrote that book got a lot of things right.

I agree that religions, governments, long-standing institutions, etc., all have motive and means to suppress truth and propagate falsehoods for various reasons. The problem tho, is the fact that separate endeavors by many disparate organizations should be uncoordinated if they were truly separate from each other. But there are trends and correlations present across too many organizations, and spanning vast periods of time....which speaks of a coordinated effort. By someone with a long view. The Shadows behind the Shadows, so to speak.

I realize how utterly tin-foil worthy that sounds, heh. (I do indeed have a tinfoil hat. It's shaped like a cowboy hat. I put it on any time I have to battle aliens, or when I'm throwing a Tin Foil Hat Party.)

Still, it's kinda funny how the idea of "conspiracy" has become such a "ludicrous" thing...like only weirdos and crazy people take "conspiracies" seriously....but "conspiracy" is defined as "any action or plan of action agreed to in secret by two or more individuals, where the effects or results of said plan or actions will benefit the conspirators to the detriment of others."
So basically, it's something that is happening everywhere, all the time. And it only takes a cursory glance at historical records to see that it is almost always secret plans of the elite and powerful that result in drastic things like nations crumbling or huge wars getting started and so forth. Yet despite those lessons of the past and the pervasive nature of conspiratorial plots at every level of society, there is this meme that "conspiracy theories" are for whackos, no serious person takes them seriously.

Having said all that, I am unable to resist ending with the classic Conspiracy Theorist line, "Convenient how it works out, ain't it? A little too convenient, wouldn't you say?"

I only wear my tin foil hat

I only wear my tin foil hat on certan days of the week LOL.  Conspiracies are plotted and hateched al the time.  Some are small such as workers getting together and deciding to gang up against another worker and get him/her fired.  Some are big such as ignoring or hiding evidence that may cause some world important entity shame or problems.  Some conspiracies hurt no one while others get people killed.  Yes, there does seem to be shadows behind the shadows, in fact.  If you look at who has the wealth, and thus has the power, you will find that only a few percent of the people on this planet today control most of the wealth and power.  That means that most of humanity today has little money and no power.  It is the people with power and money who make the rules and decide what will be and what will not be revealed.  "Follow the money" has always been one of my most useful and revealing guide posts for everything.

 

Forbidden Archaeology

Many years ago I read a book called Forbidden Archaeology by Michael Cremo.  Trying to keep an open mind was important for me, but one angle he did elaborate on, as had FORREST above, was follow the money.

Michael Cremo said that nearly all credible quests and discoveries by archeologists have been sponsored by universities or major museums like the Smithsonian.  And all discoveries, including the interpretation of evidence, are the property of the sponsor or benefactor.  Unless your analysis of the evidence fit their criteria and direction, then funding for your project could evaporate.  This meant that money controlled the direction of science and interpretation of the evidence.  If the evidence didn't bolster popular theories then in many cases it was literally destroyed.  Michael Cremo accuses the Smithsonian of dumping barge loads of artifacts into the bay off of Annapolis.

Part #2
In 1993 researchers were excavating "On Your Knees" cave on the northern end of Prince of Wales Island.  Local Native Corporations became intently interested when human remains were found.  It was their opinion that if these remains contained DNA evidence to indigenous peoples of the area, then they would claim the US Forrest Service land as an ancestral burial site and demand that ownership of this portion of the Tongass National Forrest by given to the Native Corporation.

The human bones found radio carbon dated to be roughly 9800 years old.  Sealaska Corporation had these bones DNA tested and compared to modern native inhabitants and it was discovered that these bones were not related to the indigenous peoples of Southeast Alaska now claiming the land.  In fact DNA testing proved that the closest match were from samples of modern and ancient groups, with the coastal Cayapa of Ecuador accounting for more than 50% of the matches. Others included the Chumash (California), the Klunk Mound people (Illinois), the Tarahumara (Chihuahua, Mexico), and the Mapuche and Yaghan tribes (Chile).  BUT NOT NATIVE ALASKANS.

http://www.athenapub.com/oldestDNA.htm

SEALASKA then filed law suits in courts against the Canadian company who conducted the DNA testing wanting to suppress all of the evidence.  The finding of facts would nullify their ancestral claim to the land, which it was discovered to have valuable timber, gold and silver mining interests.  Their objective was to use the archeological evidence to take possession US Federal Government lands to exploit for personal profit.  Then when it didn't work out as they'd planned, filed in court to have all knowledge of the excavation, the discovery of human remains, the outcome of DNA testing, everything destroyed, including having information removed from the internet.

Now I must agree with Michael Cremo's point that unless the scientific discoveries can be used to support a given theroy or position, then they very well may be destroyed to prevent them from discrediting modern science. 

 

 

Money and authority rules

You are so right in your general point with your comment!

On part 2, it is interresting to note that the dating fits perfectly with when the last ice age ended.

In my view, during the last ice age, Northern Scandinavia was the north pole, so the climate in Alaska would have been like the climate in Illinois or more or less also those other places where this heritage are found today. 

The last ice age in the North Americas, in my view, was before 40000 years ago, when the north pole was in Hudson bay. 

Inventor

I have read Cremo's book and

I have read Cremo's book and also "America BC" by Dr Berry Fell et al.  Universities and museums tend to fund expeditions that will enhance and support  current theories of academia while they tend not to fund expeditions that might upset the apple cart.  I know very few archaeologists or anthropologists that can fund their own expeditions.  

There are many indications including skeletal remains, carvings, etc that indicate the history of the Americas is NOT what we are being told it is.  Again, Kennewick Man and the examples you cite above are all indicators of that.  Another indicator is found in the regions of the ancient Maya of Central America, namely, the large carved stone heads of the Olmec.  The facial characteristics of these carved stones do not even remotely resemble those of the Mayan people.  In fact, they look more like African or Polynesian facial features!  If we accept the notion that Central America was explored and maybe even conquered by African or Polynesian explorers at some time then that upsets the academia apple cart and our picture of Mesoamerican history must be drastically modified.  

While I was in college a professor once told me that I was a "bit of a rebel" because I was challenging some long held theories. He told me that I must consider all of the work, hours, pain, and money spent by researchers who devised these theories and that I must consider how challenging them would destroy all of their valuable work.  So I got the clear message that even if their theories are wrong we must continue to support them in honor of all their hard work and money spent????  I won't tell you what I walked away from that conversation thinking as Ancient Origins would likely ban me for my language.  

I saw an interesting

I saw an interesting documentary recently about Atlanteans traveling throughout the world even to the Americas by boat. I can't say much about timelines but who knows why kind of trade they did? Could some of the skeletons found in another comment actually be Atlanteans? 

Are the tools mentioned in the link in the OP actually from Africa? Could it be that primitive man simply had the same or similar ideas about tools in vastly different locations? Could traders have traveled much farther than we ever realized or had a trade network that spanned a much greater distance? Could changes in land mass have provided an easier travel route?

I always have more questions than answers. 

"powers that be"

holy crap, this is great. i just watched the movie Quest for Fire. in this day and age of recycling, not just environmentally, but in hollywood too. we should remake, rework, that movie. then we could spend the profit on blowing the whistle on the true axis of evil, the "powers that be." first they taught me creation, that whole shitshow is heavily based in Mafia mythology. you have God the Father, God the Son, and a dozen or so henchmen telling you to pray, pay, and obey God the Son. if you don't you will suffer the wrath of God the Father. oh, it gets worse, enter the devil. all the pics the Urseline nuns showed me were a cartoon , he was smiling and looked far happier than the nun. they were far more scary, and ugly too. then i was taught Darwinian evolution. that worked far better for me than magic and virginity. but that pesky missing link was a monkey wrench in my machinery. it seems we have found it, a few more even and there may be even more and most evidence of all the life forms that have been here are gone to the ages. and the few snippets of our history that would give us an inkling of who we really are and where we REALLY came from our kept from us, in my holy writ is a sacrilage, a mortal sin and there should be public floggings for it! as far as the evil gray alien/ government theory all i have seen are more cartoons aand a great story board for the next J.J. Abrams flik. if some alien did crash here i pity them and the powers that be would cover that up too. oh the evil grays also stole our bigfoot, he is an alien too has his own ship and everything. being a fan of Mary Shelley, i'm glad they didn't steal Frankenstein. i'm sure they want him and all being a doctor. of course conspiracies exist. without a conspiracy Obama would never have been able to say "Bin Laden is dead." of course we white wash it and call it a "successful covert op." with all of the school shootings today it seems it only takes one person to conspire to kill a bunch of people. the true axis of evil, powers that be aren't even in office, those runny nosed whiny hand puppets are the comic relief of the whole shitshow. i'm going to point some fingers, the middle one at the rockefellers, rothchilds, warburgs, astors, morgans, koch bros. there may some i missed but close enough for government work. people don't even realize the evolution and domestication of the dog parallels our own. maybe even our distant ancestors/relatives Neanderthal and all the others during that era were involved. studies from around the worl have culminated in a very sound theory as to how the dog came into being. a 5 decade breeding study, behavioral studies of both the wolf and the dog. dna studies of 75 different breeds of dog, dna studies of wolves from around the world have brought the theory to fruition. tens of thousands if not, hundreds of thousands of years ago there was a lone wolf. wolves at times are ostricized from the pack for reasons unbeknownst to us. some times they repacked with the pack, sometimes a different pack, sometimes they perished. on rare a occasions they took a different path altogether. the wolf is a social hunter and is hardwired to adapt. a social hunter by itself is almost less than nothing and suvival is bleak. no matter the wolf is alone now, so it puts it's nose in the air and catches a scent and tracks it. after a few days it comes to some bones. scavenges a few flecks of meat and sinew and a bit of marrow. the wolf adapts once more and finds the scent rail leading away, and tracks it. more time passes more bones are found. this time there is 2 or 3 times as many. scavenging, resting and adapting again the wolf quickens it's pace. days turn into weeks, bones are scavenged. finally the wolf catches up to what is leaving all the bones. another pack of social hunters. they smell different. staying downwind and out of sight a good 1/2 country mile away the wolf watches this pack of social hunters, using it's keen eyesight and sense of smell. when the other pack feeds and moves on the wolf comes out and feeds. bored and barely not hungry the wolf adapts again and stops lurking. it sees the prey in the trees and flanks the grove of trees flushing the prey towards the new pack of social hunters. but the wolf must remain cautious and wary as these social preditors have spears. in all of the mayhem man kills more meat than otherwise, as the commotion settles, man looks up to see the iconic image of the lone wolf, standing at the edge of the trees, panting... with a smile. without the wolf man may never have been able to domesticate the auroch and breed it down to beef. we owe the dog today for domesticating herd animals as well as ourselves. on a whim man has bred the iconic lone wolf down to such abominations as the teacup yorkie, hairless chihuahua and english bull, which only exist today due to artificial insemination and c-sections. for reasons unbeknownst to me, man's best friend is ostracized and taken to the pound. a domesticated social hunter that is hard wired to adapt by itself is less than nothing and survival is bleak. no matter the dog is alone now, it will use it's sense of smell and adapt. when man takes the dog to the pound, we smell dogs, feces and urine. the dog smells much more. they can smell all of the pheromones of the other dogs, the fear, anxiety and abandonment. that's not alll, they smell the chemicals used to euthanize the pound dogs, and the incinerator, they smell all of the death. so the pound dog adapts. i have conducted 3 studies of my own of the pound dog. they are always adapting, all i have to do is provide a little food, water, excercise and a sense of belonging, and the pound dog never, ever forget what you did for them. from day 1 until their final day they never forget it. they also never let me forget it either. one of my favorite thing to do is head to the mountains and let my pound dogs romp, much like thier ancestor, the iconic lone wolf. one of the coolest thing i have ever seen is them, standing at the edge of the trees panting...with a smile. the iconic pound dog, a domesticated, social hunter, hardwired to adapt that will never forget. as another domesticated social hunter,(that smells different) and is also hardwired to adapt, i can never forget what they did for me(us) even after their final day. conclusion: you want a best friend for life, shut off the net, throw away the i-phone, go to the pound and head for the hills. they won't forget it , you won't regret it honest to God!

riparianfrstlvr

The powers that be.

I love the story. Its better than mine. I always said wolves followed people but stayed out of the light of the fire at night and the day the wolf overcame his fear of fire he inherited man.

Wow riparian I can't believe

Wow riparian I can't believe I read your entire rant.  I like the part about the wolves and dogs as I have two big dogs and, yes, it is amazing to watch them run free in the midst of the wilderness. 

 

artifact cover-ups

when i read what all you guys were saying about all of the artifacts in those mines, it really pissed me off. that historical stuff will tell us far far more than what might be in some water that may be on Mars, or some comet that is actually a second choice, and that doesn't work because the batteries are dead. WE have spent billions when we could have learned far more right here. and i have learned a lot reading you guy's posts, more than i ever learned in school. i live in former coal and gold mining country. cyanide heap leach mining trashes the country side and they never reclaim it. now i'm twice as mad.

riparianfrstlvr

You're not not the only one

You're not not the only one pissed off over this riparian.  We waste billions on Mars, comets, etc.  We know more about space than we know about our own oceans.  It is almost as if we DON'T want to know our true history, where we REALLY came from, or anything else, sadly.

 

The “King Crawley” Head

My apologies for the length.

Experts contend that modern humans have only been roaming the earth for 200,000 years.  There is a mountain of evidence being covered-up suggesting that modern humans have been around for much longer.

Here is a link to what I’ll call Archeological Stories.   I’m not saying that any of them are fact.  What
I am suggesting is this; if even one or two of them are true, then the modern dogma jammed down our throats by academia has been an outright lie.  Not a mistake, not an oversight, a lie.  What’s worse is
knowing that all of the experts are complicit in the cover-up.  By their own silence, by not exposing the
truth, is aiding and abetting science run amuck.

http://chapmanresearch.org/PDF/Strange%20Artifacts%20From%20The%20Depth%20of%20The%20Earth.pdf

The “King Crawley” Head 

In 1921, an Arkansan named Rowlands was digging in one of the many gravel pits on a line of small hillocks known as Crowley’s Ridge, located two miles north of Finch. At a depth of 10 feet, Rowlands’ shovel suddenly struck something large and solid. The abject appeared at first to be a boulder, but excavating around it. Rowlands soon discovered that it was a large rock-sculptured head of a man. It stood about four feet high, and the figure had a squared, protruding chin, small, tight-lipped mouth, short nose, and a fum, wed brow and stare accented by two flat “buttons” of inlaid gold for eyes. Two more gold discs ornamented the figure’s ears, and a heart-shaped plug of copper was embedded in the chest. The top of the head was covered by a carved hood that draped down the nape and attached to a piece around the neck. Near the head, in the same layer it was unearthed, Rowlands dug up a number of smaller objects: a gold ring, a small coffer made of volcanic pumice (which does not exist in this region), and tiny carvings of men, animals~ moons and stars.

The head and artifacts soon became a local attraction, and the newspapers dubbed the glowering figure “King Crowley.” Several investigators authenticated the find, though they could not explain its presence in the ten-foot layer of gravel — geologically dated at 175,000 years old.

The head and objects were sent to the Arkansas Natural History Museum in Little Rock. The museum curators, who also examined the artifacts and had double-checked and documented their discovery, were confident enough in the findings’ authenticity to place them on public display. At the same time, however, some of the small carving samples were mailed to the Smithsonian in Washington. The Smithsonian — being a far more conservative institution —described the carvings as truly “Unexplained items,” but could not reconcile the antiquity of the strata in which they had been brought to light. Finally, after 15 years of vacillating on the subject, orthodoxy triumphed: The Smithsonian concluded that the Crowley Ridge artifacts could not be 175,000 years old as this contradicted established theory on the age of human civilization, and therefore declared the artifacts fakes. Conforming to this prestigious conservative pronouncement, the Little Rock museum promptly took the stone head and other objects off display, and eventually sold them to unnamed private collectors. The “King Crowley” head was shipped off to California, and the rest of the collection was similarly scattered to the four winds. Today. the location of even a single object is unknown.(From Strange Relics from the Depths of the Earth, by J.R. Jochmans, Forgotten Ages Research Society, Lincoln Nebraska, 1979 )

It took 15 years??  Seriously? 

Needsun thank you for the

Needsun thank you for the link.  There are literally hundreds of mysterious finds throughout the world.  One thing we are fairly certain of via ice core samples taken by the University of Indiana and others, is that "something" happens on this planet ever so often and it appears to be a planetary event not a localized event.  Whatever it is bascially knocks us back into the "stone age" so to speak.  Nature can be a very good destroyer.  How long do you think our asphalt highways, steel and concrete buildings and homes, plastics, etc.  will endure such an event?  Not long I assure you.  

Some discoveries are cover-ups and that is NOT a conspiracy theory.  They go against everything we know so they are hidden away in order to keep order.  Other discoveries are unexplainable so they are carted off in anticipation that perhaps some day we will be able to explain them.  Not really a cover-up but simply a matter of we just don't know what they are or mean.  Other discoveries are purposefully destroyed by amateurs or the self righteous fanatics because it goes against their beliefs, religion, etc.  Still, others are uncovered and then covered back up again only to be forgotten as we can't explain those artifacts either and they are out of place and go against conventional theory.  What I'm saying is these odd discoveries are NOT  all "victims" to some grand scale cover-up.  

"If we want to know the truth, then we must follow the evidence wherever that evidence leads and no matter what it upsets or whom it offends."  But this is ONLY if we want to discover the real TRUTH.

 

The ice core data and the

The ice core data and the possibility of the occasional reboot peaks my curiosity.  

The cyclical glacial periods or "ice ages" occurring every 100,000+- years would certainly recycle everything on the surface. 

 

artifacts, cover-ups, and pms

needsun, i liked your previous post and the link. that cylinder with plunger or rod reminded me of a solenoid. both you and Roberto are spot on about the cycles of the earth. it is a bit scary if you ponder the possibilities. like we have circadian rythms so does mother earth and mother nature. maybe we are witness something only our ancient ancestors saw. some global, climactic or techtonic upheaval. or worse. my wife always says, when there is some badass natural disaster,"mother nature is pissed off at us". one thing is for sure ma nature and ma earth are not prejudice and treat everybody equally. on the flip side of that same coin they both have bad manners and never say excuse me. we are experiencing the best reality show ever, it is in HD,3D, has surround sound, and it is 100% totally interactive and it is free. merry xmas to all of you.

riparianfrstlvr

Happy Holidays riparian and

Happy Holidays riparian and to all of you.

Yes Mother Nature treats everyone equally.  She can be kind but also can be very harsh and unkind.  We may well see something happen on this planet only witnessed by our ancestors long, long ago.  We live in interesting times.

Have you guys everheard of

Have you guys ever heard of the tests they did with non newtonian fluids exposed to sound waves? There are youtube videos showing how sound, or more acurately, vibrations manifest in structured shapes. Some have interperted it as the Biblical "Word of God". That sound eminated from the creator gives the universe its building blocks. These demonstrations clearly show that it is not only the wave but also the "cycle" or frequency that gives it this power. You were speaking of observing cycles in nature and I couldn't help but think of this.

    The Norse pantheon talks of "Frost Giants" Fires and earth consuming monsters and I have often wondered if this isn't a subconscious collective memory of a people having been here long enough to have witnessed the coming and going of ice ages, vulcanos and other terraforming events. Of all the Mythologies I know of, the Norse one seems to speak to me about the forces and cycles of nature, of which we are inseperable. Even the gods themselves have a finite shelf life, they perish, only to be reborn again.

collective memories

There is a commonality in the myths, legends or stories handed down from every culture and society.  It seems that they all have stories of cataclysm and near extinction for humans.  By fire, tidal wave, flood, earthquake or by ice.  Collective memories or collective consciousness, whatever a person wants to call it, in my opinion, is undeniable.

 

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