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I’m not sure if that comment was directed at me, but I wanted to post some proof I have a lot of knowledge far more than most. I just posted this elsewhere, so if you read and think you may have just read it, you probably did. First, I created a video I want people to watch and give me their opinion.  Second, the god of the bible and all religions is more sick than probably any of you know. Because they’re all made up. No one can know any god, and furthermore everyone to exist was damned without hope before they were born. It never ceases to amaze me how almost every person in every nation spews the same murderous garbage. Their god is the real god. Some other nation is the evil god. They are child murderers. We must eliminate them. The whole idea of being anti-pedophilia and a protector of the innocent is an excuse to cover up something much sicker. That all are damned, all death is the same, and much of the pain, suffering and death is happening because almost no one is trying hard enough to evade death. People all over the world claim their forgiven or can be by a god and live like it. It’s all a lie so people can attempt to annihalate every one else (including their own race) and claim it was of god. I’m half jewish, and I always like to tell this joke : People ask me why I think Hitler did what he did to the jews. I tell them, probably living next to them for too long. I hope you realize I don’t specifically hate the jews. You can tag someone as racist, but it’s just another word for a patriot. None really cares what color you are, most will stab you in the back the minute you’re not looking. I know what the world’s problems are, and they are far, far worse than most think. I study the bible, I know it well Let me tell you a tiny detail I know. And if you think it’s amazing, I find stuff like that all the time. All the geneologies of Genesis from Adam through Jacob add up to something. There is only one other person’s age mentioned after that, and it’s joseph. The sum I got was 23,999. And when I listed jacob, I left the first two columns blank. Since it doesn’t list a son and his age when he had him. Now I’ll tell you why that is. The words and numbers were at one time a chart a person(s) created of how our time is, the days, years and so on. I have A LOT of evidence to back that up. It was some type of chart comparing a year to 1,000 days. There are 24,000 hours in 1,000 days. I believe someone found the recordings later or they were passed down wrongly believed to be a geneology. As I said, there is only one name mentioned after jacob, his son joseph. The bible says, at the very end of genesis joseph told physicians to embalm his father. It says the embalming took 40 days, and then the egyptians mourned for him 70 days. That’s 110 days. Then at the end of the same chapter, gen 50, it says joseph died being 110 years old. And that’s not the strangest part. Joseph was the 11th son of jacob. 110, 110, 11.0             That was not a geneology, as I wrote earlier I have a lot of proof. I also have a lot of proof the bible and all religions are a lie. I have a lot of proof such as numbers names and so forth from the bible, but all religions are basically the same : a lie.




sorry but i dont about topic

Interesting post.

Interesting post.


I’ve studied the bible a lot and I think if you look at the author/s as more explaining creation and the world from their own personal opinion it gives a clearer view of how the bible was written and how to interpret it. When man and woman were cast out of the garden the author tells of a flaming sword that turned in all directions to keep people out. I really think the flaming sword was the sun revolving around the earth. And I also believe there were more than two people at creation but only a male and female couple dispersed throughout the world, so they just assumed they were alone. I think each couple had a language to share and the tower of Babel was how the writer explained in his own mind why there was more than one language when for so long (having never encountered other people) he believed there was only one. And the flood story probably happened some time after he saw an ocean for the first time and couldn’t explain where all the water came from, especially if he lived in the desert for much time.


Making stuff up isn't "study"

[...] I think [...] I really think [...] I also believe [...] I think [...] probably happened [...].

Instead of completely fabricating what you wish the Biblical authors were thinking, why don't you actually read them, and -- in the absence of compelling contradictory evidence – take them at their word?


Please read post 13, which I just posted. It proves that I know what I’m talking about and furthermore that you’re an idiot. And by the way, my definition of an idiot is much lower than yours.


Clearly, you have a dizzying intellect

“my definition of an idiot is much lower than yours.


‘nuff said.

Confident talk

You write big (boastful) words, but they mean nothing. I know the bible and all religion far better than most, and I know what you're about. I'd really like to continue the discussion, so I can shut you up. But no sharing, publishing, etc, without my consent. First, I'm only going to write a tiny amount, because I've written hundreds of pages on the subject. And all the evidence is solid. The numbers in Genesis were originally an astronomical chart. The words were confused, probably because much of it was written in pictograph form. Here's a reference. " “No extant ″Phoenician″ inscription is older than 1000 BCE. The Phoenician, Hebrew, and other Canaanite dialects were largely indistinguishable before that time.”
Enoch lived (65,300,365). Also days in a calendar year. Isaac lived (60,120,180). Also degrees in a circle. Cainin lived (70,840,910). Assuming the decimal is beforthe zeroes, that's 1, 12 and 13 week. Perfectly divisible by 7.None were people, but it was a story about creation. Cain was the sunlight, Abel the son mist. Before there were oceans. In the process of time, the heat of the first day, sun light slew son mist. He fell and mixed with lot's pillar of salt, who had been left behind in sodom (southdom, the ocean floor). The sun light symbolized hope, forgiveness, a guiding light. Lamek said in Gen Ch 4,afyer killing a man in the changed story, if cain's killer be cursed 7 fold, lamek 77 fold. And in the NT, jesus apparently said not to forgive your brother 7 times, but 70x7.Three 7s, the opposite of 666. Isaac, who never existed, is the mark of the beast. I know what almost every name means. Isaac, axis. And hebrew is written from right to left, probably why many of the words are backwards. Although most can be read both ways and have the same meaning. 666 was originally the love of the world, the confusion that goes with it, and so on. The two witnesses are the written word (bible) and spoken word. Abel symbolizes an imperfect relationship with 'god'. Someone felt freshwater was the missing element from the desert. That is the tower of b(abel). Cain, cuneiform, kiln is Accad'emia, arcs, lines, writing. The Torah of bible and tower of bable. Adam earth were given the son set to replace the son mist (more of a story resulting from desert life. So the son light is the written word, the son set the spoken(saith). I can go on all day. I've written hundreds of pages, anyone is free to look at them. But there aren't only a few numbers in the chart. It was created by someone with a lot of math and physics knowledge. Adam, who is farthest from isaac (axis) has three numbers (130,800,930). The Earth's axis is 93.0 million miles from the Sun's. So it's orbital paths avg diameter is 13.0 + 80.0 + 93.0 million). The sum of every number in the middle column, adam through isaac, and the only male names in the bible for which the same three ages are given, is 9820. Earth's gravity is 9.82 m/s^2. Jared /yared/ (162,800,962) is related to the yard (800+962=1762,1760 yards in a mile) and moon (in hebrew moon is yareach). Yored (hebrew) means to descend, go down. The Moon's gravity is 1.62 m/s^2. Okay. Here's why I write all this. Because I had nothing better to do while the world was slaughtering each other in the name of a lie. I knew I couldn't be saved more than 20 years ago. But I also knew all the people claiming the people claiming to be fighting gods fight were lying. So I started studying the bible. I found enoch and 365 very quickly. I never had any idea I'd find what I have. The radii of the moon, earth and sun are in the chart. Along with pi, arcminutes in a sphere, and more. But no one ever told me I couldn't be saved. I just knew. No one who didn't hear from someone else and believe will ever trust you. You just got caught. Not that there are many who know. You know avg lifespan worldwide is 69. That's approaching half a life lost. Due to belief in a loving forgiving god. US is higher at about 79,but the continent of Africa is is 65. And China and India aren't much better. Here's how sick people are that believe. If I'm right, and I am, all death is the same. Ped-ph-lia, eating hamburgers. People from all sides are claiming p-d-philes are the lowest form of coward rapists, then going out and shoving metal bombs up people's - sses so powerful, it disintegrates them to dust. And everyone is doing it most didn't deserve to survive infancy. And here's another reason it's a lie people are protecting young, innocent (not) babies. Most kids, and adults, aren't being molested because they don't scream when people climb in their windows. The war is due to the fact that people want to believe their m-rd-ring lifestyle is okay, but not for others to do the same. And if people were brave hunters of predators, they wouldn't squirm and get mad when I mention a list of incarcerated p-d-philes. I often say, "Nothing gets people in a rage like a baby's bl--d on someone's p-n-s. And having to go out and fight them." Because I know what it means to have been treated that way by 7 billion people of all ages, for more than twenty years. Maybe you believe me, maybe you don't. Maybe it'll hit you later. But one things for sure. Everyone will believe me after they're dead. Everyone who ever existed was damned to eternal torment before they were even born, without a chance of escape. The NT is completely symbolic, and I can tell you exactly what the characters symbolized. Jesus was the continued bloodline of the Elect. Related to the scepter and the tribe of Judah. When Tamar was hidden by the road and slept with Judah, his wife had just died, and two of his sons. One was left, but Judah wasn't going to send him to her. And his 3rd son's name was Selah. He was symbolic of shiloh, the son mist. His return would have been the end of the world anyway. According to original doctrine, the return of the son missed will be the end of the world. Either all solid matter has to be destroyed, and new matter created, or people will live as spirits. To align with doctrine. Before you claim I'm wrong about the next part, read it all. The two witnesses were John the Baptist and Judas Iscariot. Actually the first half. The bible said Satan entered judas, but it meant into his heart. And remember, Jesus identified Peter as Satan. The two have a lot in common, because Peter is Judas risen. Actually, the two witnesses (written word/writer and spoken word/ prophet) have always risen again, in the religion. One died, another rose in their place. Although the two witnesses originated from the son light and the son set, they can be traced throughout the bible. For example, the sons of (god) isreal. His first four sons were, according to the story, Reuben, simeon, levi, then Judah. I already wrote about Judah. Simeon is from the line of the son set, the prophet. Levi from the son light, the written word.
Several from the spoken word have the 's' sound in their names, cain's the 'k' sound. When Judas 'son of simon' died, Simon Peter rose in his place. Both have the name Simon, both have A LOT more in common. Judas betrayed Jesus for (30) pieces, Peter betrayed jesus (3) times. Also, there was an issue concerning (300) pieces. You probably know the verse about judas, and people consider him 'the enemy'. But here's another passage. Matt 26:6-9. 6 "Now when Jesus was in Bethany, in the house of Simon the leper, 7 There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.8 But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?9 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor." Exactly like Judas. Judas was soory, Peter wept. Judas is the Greek version of Judah. Iscariot comes from Issachar and Elijah's (chariot). Just as Simeon was related to prophecy, so was Elijah (Elias). The two witnesses were clothed in sackcloth and ashes. Judas stole from a very poor group, John the Baptist ate locusts and wore camels hair. John was from the tribe of Levi, like Moses. When he was beheaded, John the author rose in his place. Moses supposedly wrote 5 books, 4 NT books are named john and Revelation is attributed to John. So why don't they have the 'k' sound? Writing has changed a lot. Cain was related to cuneiform, carving, etc. Moses wasn't 'drawn out of water', as people suppose. Moses didn't write the torah, he was the torah. Elijah supposedly stopped rain for 3 1/2 years. The two witnesses supposedly witness for 3 1/2 years. The bible also says Moses and Aaron went before Pharoah when they were 80 and 83, respectively. It doesn't say so, but those numbers are in relation to the witness that unleashes plagues for 3 1/2 years (83 1/2 - 80 = 3 1/2). I don't have time to explain Aaron now. Aaron was older than Moses, because he was the Son missed. The voice of god that spoke to the author. God still spoke to a few, who would give messages to the people. Aaron is the airin of bable. The tower. Older than his younger brother, the written word. The author didn't want to give credit to the prophet. Aaron was the dumb mouth, that could only relay written messages. But I guess people were sure they'd heard God's voice, so the son set lived also. Thus, (seth) the lord IS the tower of babble. Because noone has or can hear god. I could go on. I've studied for years. Every day. It's about all I do. But people still believe in personal responsibility, while dumping each others bodies in the gutter. I don't know any god, it's a toss up who'll go next, and about 10 in 7 billion come close to 120. And that's not old, that's what people start with. And by the way, although Enoch is related to 365 days, it's actually probably 36.5 minutes. Enoch is evolution/change from light to dark. While Enos is the opposite.



“big (boastful) words, but they mean nothing”

That’s ironic.

Correlation does not equal causation

“the Bible evolved from stories which date back”

Assuming that because two accounts share similarities, the more recent descended from the earlier is not the result of careful thinking. A contemporary historian writing from reliable records will produce a more truthful work than older storytellers passing down versions of the truth that have become corrupted over time.

Even if the Epic is older, Moses wrote from records that he possessed. (Besides that, he had uniquely direct access to the Authority on the subject.)

It makes sense that the common early history of Man would be passed down, however distorted, by Noah’s descendants around the world.

Dating the Primary History (Genesis-2 Kings)

In response to Santiago Matamoros' ("Saint James the Moor Slayer") comments: One scholar, the late professor David Freedman, has noted that endings date compositions. The Primary History (Genesis-2 Kings) begins in the Garden of Eden and ends at Babylon, with the Jewish Monarch Jehoiachin (2 Kings 25:27) being released from prison by the Babylonian king Evil-merodach (Babylonian: Abel-Marduk) in the first year of his reign. From Babylonian records is known that this Babylonian king reigned circa 562-560 BC, when he was assassinated in a palace putsch. Ergo, some scholars understand Genesis-2 Kings was composed in the Babylonian Exile between 562-560 BC. That is to say Moses did not write about the Exodus, it was written about by an unknown Jew in the Babylonian Exile. Another clue to Genesis' date is the mention of the Edomite capital city of Bozrah. The site has been excavated by archaeologists and found to to be no earlier than the late 8th century BC, but occupied extensively mostly in the 7th-6th centuries BC. Moses is understood by some conservative scholars to be writing the Torah (first 5 books of the Bible) circa 1446 BC (see 1 Kings 6:1 for this date). It is unlikely Moses wrote about a place (Bozrah) circa 1446 BC that didn't come into existence before circa 725 BC. In other words, Moses, circa 1446 BC did NOT write the Torah, it was written by someone falsely claiming to be Moses, some time between 562-560 BC. How so? The writer makes no mention of the three Babylonian kings who succeeded Evil-Merodach. The last king was Nabunindus, who lost Babylon to Cyrus the Persian circa 539 BC.

Walter R. Mattfeld

So, you looked up my nom de guerre?

“Primary history”? What a convenient way to dismiss the historicity of the Biblical texts.

Moses’ works end with Deuteronomy. That’s where his work “ends,” so that’s where you date those compositions.

The Primary History as a Ring Composition?

My maternal grandfather was born in Matanzas Cuba, his father was born in Spain, near Santander. So I know a little Spanish as regards your name Santiago Matamoros. As regards the Primary History, an author has to have a vision before him, a plan, a blueprint for his literary work, which consists of a beginning, a middle, and an end. When the beginning foreshadows the end this is called a Ring Composition. Genesis to 2 Kings appears to be a Ring Composition. How so? The beginning has Adam and Eve being expelled from Eden for disobeying God, and foreshadows the end, 2 Kings 25, as Israel and Judah are in Exile, like Adam and Eve, they have been expelled by their God for disobedience. The Middle? Moses' predicting the exile of Israel and Judah, confirmed in 2 Kings 25.
If Moses wrote the Torah, please explain why Genesis' Bozrah did not exist circa 1446 BC, it came into existence circa 725 BC. Common sense says Moses did not write about Bozrah in the book of Genesis, someone else did, pretending to be Moses. Moses was a false prophet. How so? He predicted that God would restore Israel and Judah back to their land after a 70 years exile (via the prophet Jeremiah). Jeremiah was wrong the exile did not end in 517 BC it ended 539 BC and was 48 years in length, not 70 years in length. Moses has God saying that after the nation, while in Exile, repents, then God will forgive them and return them to their land. But that is not what happened. The books of Ezra and Nehemiah portray a returned Judah as unrepentant, for they still marry foreign women and violate the Sabbath. A repentant people would not do these things! So God contradicted himself, and made a fool of Moses, and allowed non-repentant Jews back into their lands.

Walter R. Mattfeld

Your biases distort your perspective

“Genesis to 2 Kings appears to be a Ring Composition”


The God Who created everything has directed the history of His people to point to His Son. Jesus declared plainly that the Scriptures all testify of Him, so it makes complete sense that from Adam to Noah to Abraham to Moses to David, we see the Messiah promised to our first parents and their descendants.

Read the Scriptures in their proper context: Christ.

Biases distort perspective?

No written text is without bias. The author is attempting to persuade the reader to embrace the author's biases and convince the reader what he has written is true, and what others, who dissent, have written, is false. And so it goes, on and on, the pot calling the kettle black. I wonder if Santiago has ever read the works of Jewish scholars who deny Jesus is the Messiah? Or has Santiago read ONLY Christian Apologist works? His posts suggest an ignorance of what Jewish Apologists have written on the subject. I would recommend Santiago visit You Tube and its fine videos made by Jewish Apologists as to why Jesus cannot be the Messiah. To discover what is truth one needs to study, with an open mind, all points of view (or all biases) and then decide who has made the best argument.

Walter R. Mattfeld

"No written text is without bias."

“No written text is without bias [...] I wonder if Santiago has ever read the works of Jewish scholars who deny Jesus is the Messiah? Or has Santiago read ONLY Christian Apologist works? [...] To discover what is truth one needs to study, with an open mind, all points of view (or all biases) and then decide who has made the best argument”

1) So, your texts are biased. Thank you for clarifying that you are not to be trusted.

2) I read Moses and the Prophets and the Apostles. You know, the Word of God.

Anyone who tries to tell you that you need something more is selling something.

3) Arguments are good; facts are best. You’re not listening to them.

the apocryphal writings from

the apocryphal writings from the dead sea scrolls :0


Sumerians are not Semitic

Just a quick correction, Scabs Mcscrotum wrote that the Sumerians were a Semitic peoples, this is incorrect. Scholars who have studied the Sumerian language have declared it is non-Semitic. Its closest relative is today primitive Finnish, if my memory serves me rightly. The Babylonian language called Akkadian, is, however, Semitic, and the Babylonian scribes preserved Sumerian writing in their schools of writing. In fact, down to the 6th century BC, Babylonian scribes were composing works of literature written entirely in Sumerian, although it ceased to exist as a spoken language by 2500 BC! One Sumerian word made its way into the Bible: The Garden of `EDEN account in the Book of Genesis. Hebrew `EDEN means "delight," the Sumerian word EDIN means "uncultivated wilderness land" (today's barren desert wastelands of Iraq). Apparently, due to homophone confusion, the Hebrews heard EDIN as `EDEN, and thus conceived of this place being delightful, when it fact it was an undesirable desert-wasteland. One account of the Sumerians has man being created in the EDIN of a piece of moistened clay by the goddess Aruru, in the Epic of Gilgamesh. His name is Enkidu, he is portrayed as being a naked hairy beast of super-human strength. His companions are wild naked hairy animals like himself, they are of no harm to each other because both naked man and wild bulls and antelope eat grass and drink water in EDIN'S watering holes. Being a beast, naked hairy man has no knowledge of good and evil, for he does not know it is wrong to be naked in the EDIN. Then EDIN'S naked man (Enkidu) meets a naked woman, Shamhat, from the Sumerian city of UNUG (Babylonian URUK). She has been brought to EDIN by a Hunter called Sadu, her mission is two-fold, (1) She is to replace Enkidu's animal companions with herself, (2) she is then to persuade him to forsake the EDIN and its beasts and take up life in the city of UNUG (URUK) and become a friend of Gilgamesh. Before leaving the EDIN Shamhat shares her clothes with Enkidu, and thus EDIN's naked man learns in EDIN, after contact with EDIN's naked woman, that is wrong to be naked in EDIN. A clothed Enkidu and Shamaht leave EDIN for UNUG/URUK. My understanding is that behind Adam and Eve are, in part, recasts of Enkidu and Shamhat. The EDIN has become Hebrew 'EDEN. Sadu, who brought Shamhat to Enkidu has been recast as Yahweh-Elohim presenting Eve to Adam, and she will replace Adam's herbivore animals as a new companion. Adam's undoing by Eve causing his removal from Eden is a reworking of Shamhat's causing Enkidu to forsake the EDIN. I cover all this in greater detail in my 2010 self-published book, available at on the internet, _The Garden of Eden Myth: It's Pre-biblical Origin in Mesopotamian Myths_ and another book, _Eden's Serpent: Its Mesopotamian Origins._ My website, also has articles on the subject.

Walter R. Mattfeld

Fabrication is a poor substitute for fact

“to regard the Bible as literally true in every detail is to ignore the historical facts - that the Bible evolved from stories which date back to (historians estimate) nearly 4,000BC. It continues to evolve, from the major revisions of the Septuagint version of the New Testament (250AD) by the Roman emperor Constantine in 331AD, to the seven main subsequent versions”

To disregard the Bible as literally true is to ignore historical fact.

You’re confusing correlation for causation and assuming descent to suit your personal preferences, and you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the Biblical texts.

1) Nearly every ancient culture has a flood story; does that mean that everyone plagiarized Gilgamesh? Isn’t it likely that the story of The Flood was passed down (however imperfectly) through the generations as humanity spread across the earth? Just because Moses *recorded* – neither invented nor copied – the ancient stories passed down to him doesn’t mean that he plagiarized anyone’s corruptions of those stories.

The toledoth/colophons in Genesis indicate that Moses was writing from records passed down through the generations. How old were those?

2) The Septuagint was a Greek translation of the Old Testament created by Jewish experts *centuries before Christ*. Constantine (a Christian emperor centuries later) had nothing to do with it. (Though you don’t state it explicitly, you are perhaps referring to the atheist/Muslim lie that Constantine changed the Bible/introduced the doctrine of the Trinity/deified Christ at the Council of Nicea. He did not. Constantine called together the leaders of the Christian world to settle the matter of a particular heresy rampant in the Church. They did; it was pretty much unanimous against the heretic.)

3) Those “main subsequent versions” are merely translations of the oldest and most reliable manuscripts available at the times they were created. (We currently have much more reliable source material than they did in King James’ day.) They are *not* changes to the Biblical texts.

(I recently heard someone say that Luther changed the Bible; he did not. He merely translated it into German and moved the Apocryphal books – never considered Divinely inspired before then – to an appendix at the end of his translation, affirming their usefulness and worth.)

If you’re going to presume to correct and inform others, then you really ought to know what you’re talking about.

Noah's Flood as Plagiarized Myth

Santiago Matamoros objects to Noah's Flood being considered to being a plagiarization of the Flood account found in the Epic of Gilagmesh. Sadly lacking in Santiago's rebuttal is his apparent LACK OF UNDERSTANDING on what Science and Archaeology have to say about Noah's Flood. Archaeologists have excavated to bedrock numerous ancient sites in the Near East, Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Turkey, Iraq and Iran and documented settlements being founded as early as 10,000 BC. IN NONE OF THESE SITES WAS THERE FOUND ANY EVIDENCE OF NOAH's FLOOD CIRCA 2340 BC (said date being based on the Bible's internal chronology by a number of Conservative Christian scholars). For example, ancient Jericho has been excavated to bedrock by archaeologists and it was founded circa 9500 BC in the Neolithic or New Stone Age period. It was finally abandoned circa 587 BC when destroyed by the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar. The archaeologists found no evidence of Noah's flood layer in the various occupational layers from 9500 BC to 587 BC. In fact they found NO FLOOD SEDIMENT IN ANY LAYER, AT ANY TIME! So there you have it Santiago Matamoros, there is NO evidence of Noah's Worldwide Flood that covered the world's mountain tops. However, the Gilgamesh story has its flood hero at the city of Shuruppak when his god tells him to build a boat, for a flood will destroy all life, man and animals. In 1931 archaeologists excavated Shuruppak, on the Euphrates river. It existed circa 3000 BC to 2000 BC it had evidence of one flood layer only, circa 2900 BC. The silt was freshwater laid from a flooding Euphrates river. The flood silt was 14 inches deep. It did not extend to other nearby sites. This caused the archaeologists to realize behind the Gilgamesh flood account was the Shuruppak flood of circa 2900 BC, and probably this was also behind the Noah's flood account, but no flood silt circa 2340 BC was to be found of Noah's Flood. Conclusions: The Bible accepted the nonsense of the Gilgamesh flood about three birds being released to test the abatement of flood waters, it accepted the Gilgamesh account of the boat beaching atop a mountain. The lack of physical evidence in the context of a flood presence appearing in archaeological sites earlier than 2340 BC proves the Bible is wrong, and Jesus, who taught the Flood was a real event, was misinformed and wrong too. By turning a blind eye to the archaeological findings at Jericho and Shuruppak (modern Tel Fara in Iraq) both Judaism and Christianity have suppressed this information, not sharing it with their congregations, realizing it would bring to an end Judaism and Christianity when it is realized by the congregation that the Bible's Noah's Flood is a plagiarized Mesopotamian flood myth.

Walter R. Mattfeld

Talk about a "lack of understanding"

“no evidence of Noah's flood layer [...] no flood sediment in any layer at any time [...]”

Talk about a lack of critical thinking:

1) The existence/absence of archaeological evidence for the Flood has no bearing on whether or not Moses wrote from his own sources or plagiarized Gilgamesh. You’ve offered nothing to support your claim of theft other than it’s one of the many Flood stories common to practically all ancient cultures.

2) What would evidence of a massive, global, cataclysmic, humanity-destroying, Earth-reshaping flood look like?

3) You claim that there’s “no flood sediment in any layer, at any time.” So, floods have never occurred there.


Lack of Critical Thinking?

Santiago appears to display a lack of critical thinking. He asks "What would evidence of a massive, global, cataclysmic, humanity-destroying, Earth-reshaping flood look like?" Are you kidding me Santiago? Pulling my leg with this nonsense question? All the sites in existence on planet earth, throughout the world that existed before circa 2340 BC (Noah's Flood) would have a flood layer atop the earlier ruins, and NONE DO. Ergo, Noah's worldwide flood that covered mountain tops is myth and nonsense. If the Bible teaches this is a real event and so, apparently did the authors of the New Testament, then all in the Bible is false, the Bible's writers having accepted a tall-tale about the Mesopotamian flood in the Epic of Gilgamesh, situated at ancient Shuruppak circa 2900 BC. Jericho lies below sea Level, it was founded circa 9400 BC according to archaeologists, yet it has no evidence of a flood layer or deposit at any time (circa 2340 BC Noah's Flood) nor any flood at all. Critical thinking: If there is no evidence of Noah's flood circa 2340 BC atop ruins dating back to 9400 BC, the Bible is false and not the word of God, in claiming a worldwide flood. There is nothing wrong with my logic or critical thinking, the problem lies with Santiago's critical thinking skills, or lack thereof.

Walter R. Mattfeld


Walter, although I know noone ever could be saved from eternal torment (for a lot of reasons), the flood, without a doubt, never happened. First, the bible claims the waters covered all the mountains of the Earth. The elevation of Mt Everest is 29,000 ft. The average depth of the Earth's oceans is 12,000 ft, and they only cover 70% of the Earth's surface. Furthermore, the oceans contain 96% of the Earth's water, including the atmosphere. The definition of rain is, water that evaporates, then falls back to Earth. So the Sun has to heat the water, then the moisture cools, and falls back to Earth. There is no way, even if the Sun boiled all the water out of the ocean, then dropped it back down, even Mt Ararat (elev 12000 ft) couldnt have been covered. Just for the sake of insanity, the water would have all rushed back into what used to be the ocean. Earth's average rainfall per year is 39 inches, 3.25 ft. For the water to have covered Everest, would have required something like, 800 ft per day, for 40 days. And there has been no water discovered, outside of our atmosphere, in all the exploration done. The story is simply ridiculous.


Noah's Flood

Those Christians who believe in Noah's flood claim that today's mountains did not exist in Noah's day, they came later, thus they argue the Earth must have been flatter and the mountains not so high and thus these low-lying mountains easily could be covered in water like the Bible says. I don't buy this nonsense.

Walter R. Mattfeld

You're still not thinking

“All the sites in existence on planet earth”

It wasn’t “sites”; it was the entire thing.

Why Jesus is not the Messiah (Jewish Perspective)

The following urls are an excellent summation of why most Jewish scholars have rejected Jesus being THE Messiah (His failure to fulfill prophecies about the Messiah)
Or go to YouTube and type in the YouTube search box:
Jewish Messiah+ why he's not Jesus (reply 2 one for Israel messianic Jews for Jesus voice)

An ex-Catholic has a fine set of 4 YouTube videos presenting how Christian authors of the New Testament created false prophecies about the Messiah and then misapplied them to Jesus, see the folllowing urls (there are 4 videos)

Walter R. Mattfeld

Wow, what passionate posts

     In mankind’s time line, rather it be the Bible, Koran, Torah or even earlier, the emerald tablet, these were the philosophy of the day, a guidance of virtue. In other words, did a snake really talk in the garden of Eden? It is the moral of the story. Mankind’s knowingness seems to weigh itself in dualism, Light or Dark, Sol or Luna, Damned or UN-damned, the eyes of Horus, Heaven or Hell, etc.

     These are all good books. They have brought consciousness to your definition of being. Without them, how else would have weighed yourself? Thus, the intent of the Manuscript. Pehaps somebody should tell Bill Maher, I just recently watched his documentary on the Bible. I guess comedians like to make funny of themselves.

Not exactly ...

The Pentateuch is the beginning of the Bible.

Qur’an is a handbook from hell.

The Bible is a handbook from hell

Not only is the Quran from Hell, but its predecessors as well, the Old and New Testaments, full of lies, and failed, false prophecies, from Genesis to the book of Revelation. Check out for all the info with-held from you and suppressed by Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Your educators have kept you in ignorance, blinding you, and thereby controlling you to do their will. They all threaten their ignorant followers with hell-fire if they dare think for themselves and read and study the literature against these spurious religious books.

Walter R. Mattfeld

Just simple

   You do not think Christianity veered off course a few times? Or the human reason Christ was executed in the first place? Religion or a better humanity only reaches its light when it has no hate.

Just simple

Just that simple

Passionate posts

Bill Maher is a former Catholic, who dared to think for himself and study the literature out there revealing that the Bible is not the word of God. He uses humor to poke holes in the silly notions bible-believers espouse.

Walter R. Mattfeld

Just an observation

   Bill Maher has a collective thought process that's more dangerous than Bible or Koran. For an example, in his eyes, half of the United States population that voted should be removed. How does that merge humanity?  Which was the point.

Your quote

“Not only is the Quran from Hell, but its predecessors as well”

Do you note any parallels in history?

The flood

     Your point about the flood, displacement, this earth has not lost one drop of water since its beginning. In your calculations did you include all the volume from the underground aquifers where this water first broke into a stream and later receded?. It is easy to reorder words in favor or disfavor.


     I am humored in your dismantling reason(s). However, you are correct in the sense of plagiarized religions.

A question

This is for everyone. I hear a lot about the new covenant, the power of God and similar subject matter. So here's a related question. If the gods you made up in your heads loves, cares for, and hold babies in the highest of esteem, what makes you think he'll be any more trustworthy, when it's time to save you from eternal torment?


A questions remark

Respect to all

   It is a higher authority of moral ism from above, within etc.  Where do you get your morals? The state?  It is when this fundamentalism takes away individual(s) thought, it becomes a loss to all humanity. 

The bible had a varied

The bible had a varied versions.


I find it hard to be willing

I find it hard to be willing to be involved in this thread because the user name of the person in the original post is most foul and disgusting. I’m surprised that the forum moderators allow such a disgusting rude offensive name.

“The real Messiah was to be Zerubbabel, NOTJesus”

Actually the Minor Prophet verses referred to imply both Zerubbabel and Jeshua are types of the messiah (Yeshua/Jesus). Jeshua’s name and nature corresponds with Jesus’. Neither Zerubbabel nor Jeshua turned out to be any great messiah despite what they did do.