in case some people haven't noticed amidst their ramblings about the swastik's origination or it being a cross etc. Swastik is a HINDU or more correctly ARYAN symbol for happiness and certainly does not belong to china or Tibet but came to be known in the land with the spread of Buddhism which is an Indian religion- buddha being an Indian prince turned yogi. the thing is: think before commenting crap people!
moreover a certain theory for its spread could be the found in the origin of the Aryans,(they immigrated to South Asia) and Swastik certainly does not call devils or evil.
The more I argue with you, I will not! I live here in Kazakhstan, I am a nomad, and I falconer. Excavations of Scythian burial mounds are located 10 km. from my house. If you want to become familiar with the material that come to me for a month and tarry life of nomads, then we will continue the conversation.
Here lies your answer, from the horses mouth so to speak.
Google "tales from the night rainbow" an account taken over a century ago from one of them.
Free to read at scribd.
If you are looking for the the light skinned diminutive race with a penchant for bananas :) you need to be looking for the mu'a or mua in the mists of pre history.
First, my research on the history of eagle falconry is not from the Internet but based on the work of historians of falconry and steppe nomads and the archaeologists of the Tarim Basin mummies. Please see the reference list for Parts 1 and 2 of this article, esp. Central Asian Falconry, the works of T. Soma, and for the archaeology of Tarim mummies, see Elizabeth Barber and Victor Mair. Second, the Tarim Basin archaeologists Mair and Barber provided the photo and drawing of the female mummy with falconry mitt now in the Urumqi museum. The female mummy eagle hunter is not "the Altai mummy queen" as Qazak says (and she was not Kazakh, but probably Tocharian). Many photos of this female Tarim Basin mummy on the Internet show a reversed image with the mitt on the right hand. In fact, it is on her left hand. Qazak is correct that todays' Kazakh and Kyrgyz eagle hunters wear the gauntlet on the right hand, leaving the left arm free to control the horse. But this style is relatively recent. The handedness practice has evolved since antiquity, as reported by many falconry historians. In ancient times the mitt was usually worn on the left arm, leaving the dominant right arm free for weapons--from the days when steppe nomads were active warriors using swords. For example, Mongols carried the eagle on the left arm. Eagles were also perched on the left arm in antiquity when the hunter was on foot, again leaving the right arm for weapons. Ancient images show both right and left handed perches. Third, your claims about nomad women's roles in antiquity are based on modern assumptions and do not apply to antiquity, as demonstrated by archaeological and historical evidence. Kurgan graves across ancient Scythia from the Black Sea to the Altai show that nomadic men and women participated in the same physical activities of riding and hunting. The only "herds" in antiquity on the steppes were horses (other herd animlas came later). Archaeological discoveries of the ancient graves of more than 300 women shows that they were buried with the same weapons, armor, and horses as the men (and men were buried with jewelry, needles, mirrors, like the women). For these facts see chapter 4 of "The Amazons: Lives and Legends of Warrior Women across the Ancient World" (Princeton University Press, 2014).
surprised to see no reference to Rudenko's The Frozen Tombs of Siberia!!! this book documents his 'discovery' and opening of several burial mounds, in the 1940's... of course his work is plagued by the male archeologist bias that women were of no significance... but the tome is highly detailed as to placement, findings &c
so George Lucas knew of Yiddish in college, and decided to use it's form of words to create his character names. Cool !
But where did name, Han Solo come from ? :)
Christianity is no modern belief. I bet she would expect there to be some Christian reference but the maker had no desire to believe in God. Instead he, they more strongly desired it to be ritual driven, upon entering, a walk through a visual o,f dimension; thus, an attempt helping to set the mind.
Then the alter, to pledge, a full acceptance, a committing if one wills; to a Joining..
Also underground for great privacy, And preservation. I find it believable that it was produced in the 12th century. About the time when free masonry was, born ? Not sure on that date though.
Yet also, what unique offerings or artifacts were brought in, for such ritual, or words spoken, to become some new, member ? And now, all that (whatever) was involved is, Gone :(
Well you can certainly believe whatever you want to, just be aware that real history isn't taught by conjecture or opinion but by observation of the known facts, and the known facts in the mummified remains of Tutankhamen no longer support a murder claim.
One other thought to add to this. Apparently the Swastika was also a symbol designating Horus, perhaps a mark that the 'men of metal' dedicated to him wore. Not sure on this but have heard it. Either way , this symbol is extremely ancient and associated with the world wide written language that existed before the division of languages. It would be interesting if the excavations going on in Egypt could manage to uncover the truly ancient copies of Historical records, and not hide them from the public as well.
I suspect that the Swastika might be somehow connected with the Laybrenths, representing the cycle of, or journey though, life. As for Hilter, he succeeded to some degree in what he was searching for, and that was borderline space flight, and a connection to the 'others' that the rest of us might call demons, their human counterparts as being the 'illumanati'. Study him a bit more, and you find something very interesting. His 'religion' besides being into the occult, was Darwinism. He was an avid follower of Margarett Sanger. He was the ruler that worshiped the Strange God that his forfathers did not know, the God of Forces. Power, and the survival of the fittest, under the belief that it was providence , Destiny to rule and lead the world, and if it was not such, and Germany should fail, then it was obviously not strong enough and should be destroyed, allowing for the more fit to assume the role. The idea of tall , blond Nordic types being the descendents of the previous civilization of Atlantis, and that would be the ideal to strive for... well there we dive into the occult yet again. And a connection between the past and the policies of the present.
Article largely resembles delirium. The author is not well studied topic, and gathered all the facts on the Internet. One of the facts about the gauntlet from the Altai mummy queen. Glove mummy on the left hand, although the hunters and horsemen in Asia were birds on his right hand. Women nomads mainly sat in the house and could not go hunting or war. While the man was hunting or fighting, the woman had to look after the children and the cattle, collect firewood, to cook, to sew clothes, dress skins. In women, the nomads were not physically possible to do other things. Learn the history and communicate with these nomads, and then you will understand the mentality and history of the nomadic people.
Djonis says: "Essentially, and contrary to a common belief that Plato’s Atlantis may have been somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean, a recent study shows that Plato's island of Atlantis was in the Mediterranean Sea and just few kilometers north of the island of Santorini."
This is rubbish. Plato, in Timaeus, explicitly says that Atlantis was a power that "came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean." He distinguishes the Atlantic Ocean, which he refers to as "the real sea," and "the true ocean," from the Mediterranean Sea, which he describes as "the sea which is within the Straits of Heracles," and as being "only a harbor, having a narrow entrance."
So the only way that someone can claim that the "island of Atlantis" was inside the Mediterranean Sea is to claim that "The Straits of Heracles" was not what referring to what we now call the Straits of Gibraltar, but some other strait within the Mediterranean Sea. There is absolutely no evidence in support of such a notion.
Also, the plain of Atlantis, as described by Plato, was much bigger than the Cyclades Plateau ever was. Its dimensions were said to be 2000 by 3000 stadia, or 230 miles by 340 miles (No, it is not controversial that 1 mile = 8.8 Greek stadia). Other scholars have tried to argue that all of the numbers in Plato's dialogues were off by a factor of 10. The problem with this hypothesis is that if the measurements of length were off by a factor of 10, so should all of the other numbers, including how long ago Atlantis supposedly existed. But Djonis maintains that his "Atlantis" sank when Plato said it did - about 9000 years before his time. To suggest that Plato got the time measurements right but the length measurements wrong is absurd.
Djonis also makes the egregious error of conflating Athens with Atlantis at the end of his article. He says: "Poetically once more, he compared these small islets to the 'bones of the wasted body' of the 'country' that once was there," with a quote that follows. But this quote is actually referring to not Atlantis, but the ancient Athens that existed contemporaneously with Atlantis and was supposedly destroyed in the same cataclysm.
Here is the context of the quote: "Even the remnant of Attica which now exists may compare with any region in the world for the variety and excellence of its fruits and the suitableness of its pastures to every sort of animal, which proves what I am saying; but in those days the country was fair as now and yielded far more abundant produce. How shall I establish my words? and what part of it can be truly called a remnant of the land that then was? The whole country is only a long promontory extending far into the sea away from the rest of the continent, while the surrounding basin of the sea is everywhere deep in the neighbourhood of the shore. Many great deluges have taken place during the nine thousand years, for that is the number of years which have elapsed since the time of which I am speaking; and during all this time and through so many changes, there has never been any considerable accumulation of the soil coming down from the mountains, as in other places, but the earth has fallen away all round and sunk out of sight. The consequence is, that in comparison of what then was, there are remaining only the bones of the wasted body, as they may be called, as in the case of small islands, all the richer and softer parts of the soil having fallen away, and the mere skeleton of the land being left."
Clearly, Plato is referring to ancient Athens, which he calls Attica, in this passage, and not Atlantis.
While this is just a single mistake, it is one that demonstrates that the author has a superficial understanding of Plato's dialogues, whether in English or the original Greek.
Djonis also says: "This recent evaluation of Plato's text revealed that simple errors and flawed interpretations by early translators led many researchers in the past to look for Atlantis in all the wrong places. Consequently, unlike all past “discoveries,” including recent ones that led to more speculation rather than real evidence, for the first time, there is a tangible site where all the physical characteristics perfectly match Plato’s account."
This is so stupid it beggars belief. Here is a person who cannot understand the basic facts about the text he is reading, making the amateurish mistake of conflating Athens and Atlantis...and he is bold enough to suggest that there have been translation errors? No, no. The errors are in the author's interpretation and understanding of the dialogues, not in the translations. The scholars who translated these works from Greek to English were first class scholars. This is just a rhetorical trick that the author of the article is using to make his point. Shameful.
Djonis' article and book have done a tremendous disservice to Atlantis research.
Here you can navigate quickly through all comments made in any article sorted by date/time.
in case some people haven't noticed amidst their ramblings about the swastik's origination or it being a cross etc. Swastik is a HINDU or more correctly ARYAN symbol for happiness and certainly does not belong to china or Tibet but came to be known in the land with the spread of Buddhism which is an Indian religion- buddha being an Indian prince turned yogi. the thing is: think before commenting crap people!
moreover a certain theory for its spread could be the found in the origin of the Aryans,(they immigrated to South Asia) and Swastik certainly does not call devils or evil.
Akalinus, a little late, but i found your comment...My question is, why do you think the language was Hungarian?
The more I argue with you, I will not! I live here in Kazakhstan, I am a nomad, and I falconer. Excavations of Scythian burial mounds are located 10 km. from my house. If you want to become familiar with the material that come to me for a month and tarry life of nomads, then we will continue the conversation.
Here lies your answer, from the horses mouth so to speak.
Google "tales from the night rainbow" an account taken over a century ago from one of them.
Free to read at scribd.
If you are looking for the the light skinned diminutive race with a penchant for bananas :) you need to be looking for the mu'a or mua in the mists of pre history.
First, my research on the history of eagle falconry is not from the Internet but based on the work of historians of falconry and steppe nomads and the archaeologists of the Tarim Basin mummies. Please see the reference list for Parts 1 and 2 of this article, esp. Central Asian Falconry, the works of T. Soma, and for the archaeology of Tarim mummies, see Elizabeth Barber and Victor Mair.
Second, the Tarim Basin archaeologists Mair and Barber provided the photo and drawing of the female mummy with falconry mitt now in the Urumqi museum. The female mummy eagle hunter is not "the Altai mummy queen" as Qazak says (and she was not Kazakh, but probably Tocharian). Many photos of this female Tarim Basin mummy on the Internet show a reversed image with the mitt on the right hand. In fact, it is on her left hand. Qazak is correct that todays' Kazakh and Kyrgyz eagle hunters wear the gauntlet on the right hand, leaving the left arm free to control the horse. But this style is relatively recent. The handedness practice has evolved since antiquity, as reported by many falconry historians. In ancient times the mitt was usually worn on the left arm, leaving the dominant right arm free for weapons--from the days when steppe nomads were active warriors using swords. For example, Mongols carried the eagle on the left arm. Eagles were also perched on the left arm in antiquity when the hunter was on foot, again leaving the right arm for weapons. Ancient images show both right and left handed perches.
Third, your claims about nomad women's roles in antiquity are based on modern assumptions and do not apply to antiquity, as demonstrated by archaeological and historical evidence. Kurgan graves across ancient Scythia from the Black Sea to the Altai show that nomadic men and women participated in the same physical activities of riding and hunting. The only "herds" in antiquity on the steppes were horses (other herd animlas came later). Archaeological discoveries of the ancient graves of more than 300 women shows that they were buried with the same weapons, armor, and horses as the men (and men were buried with jewelry, needles, mirrors, like the women). For these facts see chapter 4 of "The Amazons: Lives and Legends of Warrior Women across the Ancient World" (Princeton University Press, 2014).
surprised to see no reference to Rudenko's The Frozen Tombs of Siberia!!! this book documents his 'discovery' and opening of several burial mounds, in the 1940's... of course his work is plagued by the male archeologist bias that women were of no significance... but the tome is highly detailed as to placement, findings &c
I am under the impression that since i put the question mark ( ? ) this is the same question in a way.
I just cant imagine there is no one willing to go check this out.
so George Lucas knew of Yiddish in college, and decided to use it's form of words to create his character names. Cool !
But where did name, Han Solo come from ? :)
what rings were on tuts fingers ? And I bet Cleopatra when found, she will have rings as well :)
Christianity is no modern belief. I bet she would expect there to be some Christian reference but the maker had no desire to believe in God. Instead he, they more strongly desired it to be ritual driven, upon entering, a walk through a visual o,f dimension; thus, an attempt helping to set the mind.
Then the alter, to pledge, a full acceptance, a committing if one wills; to a Joining..
Also underground for great privacy, And preservation. I find it believable that it was produced in the 12th century. About the time when free masonry was, born ? Not sure on that date though.
Yet also, what unique offerings or artifacts were brought in, for such ritual, or words spoken, to become some new, member ? And now, all that (whatever) was involved is, Gone :(
Well you can certainly believe whatever you want to, just be aware that real history isn't taught by conjecture or opinion but by observation of the known facts, and the known facts in the mummified remains of Tutankhamen no longer support a murder claim.
On your tablet try to click and hold for options to save to come up.
One other thought to add to this. Apparently the Swastika was also a symbol designating Horus, perhaps a mark that the 'men of metal' dedicated to him wore. Not sure on this but have heard it. Either way , this symbol is extremely ancient and associated with the world wide written language that existed before the division of languages. It would be interesting if the excavations going on in Egypt could manage to uncover the truly ancient copies of Historical records, and not hide them from the public as well.
I suspect that the Swastika might be somehow connected with the Laybrenths, representing the cycle of, or journey though, life. As for Hilter, he succeeded to some degree in what he was searching for, and that was borderline space flight, and a connection to the 'others' that the rest of us might call demons, their human counterparts as being the 'illumanati'. Study him a bit more, and you find something very interesting. His 'religion' besides being into the occult, was Darwinism. He was an avid follower of Margarett Sanger. He was the ruler that worshiped the Strange God that his forfathers did not know, the God of Forces. Power, and the survival of the fittest, under the belief that it was providence , Destiny to rule and lead the world, and if it was not such, and Germany should fail, then it was obviously not strong enough and should be destroyed, allowing for the more fit to assume the role. The idea of tall , blond Nordic types being the descendents of the previous civilization of Atlantis, and that would be the ideal to strive for... well there we dive into the occult yet again. And a connection between the past and the policies of the present.
Article largely resembles delirium. The author is not well studied topic, and gathered all the facts on the Internet. One of the facts about the gauntlet from the Altai mummy queen. Glove mummy on the left hand, although the hunters and horsemen in Asia were birds on his right hand. Women nomads mainly sat in the house and could not go hunting or war. While the man was hunting or fighting, the woman had to look after the children and the cattle, collect firewood, to cook, to sew clothes, dress skins. In women, the nomads were not physically possible to do other things. Learn the history and communicate with these nomads, and then you will understand the mentality and history of the nomadic people.
Djonis says: "Essentially, and contrary to a common belief that Plato’s Atlantis may have been somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean, a recent study shows that Plato's island of Atlantis was in the Mediterranean Sea and just few kilometers north of the island of Santorini."
This is rubbish. Plato, in Timaeus, explicitly says that Atlantis was a power that "came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean." He distinguishes the Atlantic Ocean, which he refers to as "the real sea," and "the true ocean," from the Mediterranean Sea, which he describes as "the sea which is within the Straits of Heracles," and as being "only a harbor, having a narrow entrance."
So the only way that someone can claim that the "island of Atlantis" was inside the Mediterranean Sea is to claim that "The Straits of Heracles" was not what referring to what we now call the Straits of Gibraltar, but some other strait within the Mediterranean Sea. There is absolutely no evidence in support of such a notion.
Also, the plain of Atlantis, as described by Plato, was much bigger than the Cyclades Plateau ever was. Its dimensions were said to be 2000 by 3000 stadia, or 230 miles by 340 miles (No, it is not controversial that 1 mile = 8.8 Greek stadia). Other scholars have tried to argue that all of the numbers in Plato's dialogues were off by a factor of 10. The problem with this hypothesis is that if the measurements of length were off by a factor of 10, so should all of the other numbers, including how long ago Atlantis supposedly existed. But Djonis maintains that his "Atlantis" sank when Plato said it did - about 9000 years before his time. To suggest that Plato got the time measurements right but the length measurements wrong is absurd.
Djonis also makes the egregious error of conflating Athens with Atlantis at the end of his article. He says: "Poetically once more, he compared these small islets to the 'bones of the wasted body' of the 'country' that once was there," with a quote that follows. But this quote is actually referring to not Atlantis, but the ancient Athens that existed contemporaneously with Atlantis and was supposedly destroyed in the same cataclysm.
Here is the context of the quote: "Even the remnant of Attica which now exists may compare with any region in the world for the variety and excellence of its fruits and the suitableness of its pastures to every sort of animal, which proves what I am saying; but in those days the country was fair as now and yielded far more abundant produce. How shall I establish my words? and what part of it can be truly called a remnant of the land that then was? The whole country is only a long promontory extending far into the sea away from the rest of the continent, while the surrounding basin of the sea is everywhere deep in the neighbourhood of the shore. Many great deluges have taken place during the nine thousand years, for that is the number of years which have elapsed since the time of which I am speaking; and during all this time and through so many changes, there has never been any considerable accumulation of the soil coming down from the mountains, as in other places, but the earth has fallen away all round and sunk out of sight. The consequence is, that in comparison of what then was, there are remaining only the bones of the wasted body, as they may be called, as in the case of small islands, all the richer and softer parts of the soil having fallen away, and the mere skeleton of the land being left."
Clearly, Plato is referring to ancient Athens, which he calls Attica, in this passage, and not Atlantis.
While this is just a single mistake, it is one that demonstrates that the author has a superficial understanding of Plato's dialogues, whether in English or the original Greek.
Djonis also says: "This recent evaluation of Plato's text revealed that simple errors and flawed interpretations by early translators led many researchers in the past to look for Atlantis in all the wrong places. Consequently, unlike all past “discoveries,” including recent ones that led to more speculation rather than real evidence, for the first time, there is a tangible site where all the physical characteristics perfectly match Plato’s account."
This is so stupid it beggars belief. Here is a person who cannot understand the basic facts about the text he is reading, making the amateurish mistake of conflating Athens and Atlantis...and he is bold enough to suggest that there have been translation errors? No, no. The errors are in the author's interpretation and understanding of the dialogues, not in the translations. The scholars who translated these works from Greek to English were first class scholars. This is just a rhetorical trick that the author of the article is using to make his point. Shameful.
Djonis' article and book have done a tremendous disservice to Atlantis research.
I have hard of Colchis and I know it had bee considered.
When I click on Kindle it comes up gobbledygook! I am on a tablet and cannot "right click!!" Please advise??
Can someone post a video of the orchestra playing this music ???
Thank you, this helped me a lot. Marijuana and Hemp should be legalized again.
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