Here you can navigate quickly through all comments made in any article sorted by date/time.
BTW, you can actually buy a kit from the National Genomic project and have your Neanderthal/Denisovan quotient tested.
Yes, "Negro" is the term used for Sub Saharan Africans. "Negroid" is a word used to describe people who look like "Negros". It literally means Negro like just as Caucasoid means Caucasian like. Negroid is not the same as Negro. Negro is a noun while Negroid is an adjective.
Did you not read the article? Here's a quote from the second paragraph:
"By developing powerful new statistical methods, an international team has identified how often and on which continents modern humans, Neandertals, and a second kind of archaic human called Denisovans met and mated. The researchers conclude that if you’re an East Asian, you have three Neandertals in your family tree; Europeans and South Asians have two, and Melanesians only one. (Africans, whose ancestors did not mate with Neanderthals, have none.)"
You are correct, the 40,000 year old individual did not pass on his genes. Nor did the 100,000 year old Altai individual but these are not the only hybridizing events. Others were successful. Hence, the quote above. All together the AMH genome is 20% Neanderthal. Each individual other than Africans, has between 2 and 5% Neanderthal genes. This has been proven beyond any doubt. It is not open for discussion.
"You said “ I said they left Africa 60,000 years bp, and stopped in the Levant for a while and mixed with Neanderthals about 55,000 years bp. The last common ancestor of Europeans and Native Americans lived in what is today So Russia about 45,000 years bp. Since you love articles so much.. “ This is false. There is no evidence that amh were in the Levant 60kya, or the ancestor of Native Americans and Europeans living in Siberia 45kya. The earliest examples of amh in Euroasia come from Spain and date to 45,000bp not the Levant.In the http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v505/n7481/full/nature12736.html#af... article there is discussion of an amh, Mal’ta man, dating to 24kya—not 45kya as you allege."
Actually, they date from 41,000 years bp for the Spanish bones. As to AMHs in the Levant, the Manot cave fossil from western Galilee is reliably dated to 55,000 years bp here's the news release from 2015:
Yes, the individual in the article was dated to 24,000 years bp but, that's not why I linked to it. You claimed there's no genetic evidence connecting ancient Europeans to Native Americans. That find proves that there is. The 45,000 years bp date comes from mapping of a human genomic clock based upon mitochondrial haplotypes.
Again, the Qafzeh-Es Skhul finds you are talking about are much later than the hybridization event. Yes, they are Africans and therefore, had no Neanderthal genetics. HOWEVER, the people they replaced who are ancestral to all non Africans had a major Neanderthal component to their genome. Biogeographically the Sinai and the Levant are considered to be a part of Africa rather than Asia so it is not surprising to find that African peoples. Both archaic and modern humans have moved back and forth through the area. No one is disputing that all AMH are descended from Africans. What I am disputing is your magical migration directly from Africa to the Americas. It simply did not happen. There is not one line of investigation that shows it ever happened and many that show conclusively that it did not. Stop trying to steal the East Asian heritage of Native Americans. Yes, you sound that silly.
The simple fact of the matter is you can not read my mind. Because I disagree with you doesn't mean I am wrong. Ever stop to think that maybe you are the one who suffers from Cognitive dissonance? Honestly, you need to update your data.
Thank you for your differential analysis Dr Freud.
I enjoy reading opposing thoughts, for how else do we learn? And, I agree with some of the thoughts on this site.
I have been a student of comparative mythology for more than twenty years and one thing I’ve learned is that many of what we call the old religions must have had a common origin as they are so similar. In many cases, one culture took the names of another’s “gods” merely changing the name, sometimes as close as dropping or adding a single letter.
As for the Bible, my research has indicated that the OT was written down by the prophet Jeremiah after the Jews returned from exile in Babylon. Since prior to that, the “religion” of the Jews was oral, it makes sense that they incorporated the tales and legends of the different peoples they encountered while in Babylon, merely changing the names to Hebrew ones.
I do not believe that the Bible becomes more accurate until we reach Judges and Kings (though I think some mythology was incorporated in some of the characters i.e. David, who supposedly kills Goliath both with and without a sword and later someone named Elhanan is credited with killing Goliath - who is later claimed to kill the brother of Goliath).
I consider myself a Christian, yet I do not believe that the Bible is the “Word of God”. Otherwise, there would not be so many contradictions. However, the Bible is valuable as a template as to how we should live out lives.
IMHO mythology is valuable as it relates not only the ancient history of a people (usually from a time before tales were written down) but also gives insight into their thoughts, mores and ideals.
Hopefully, open conversation will continue without undue criticism from others. It’s ok to disagree, but I don’t feel that anyone should be entirely negative. If you must post a disagreement, please cite references to uphold your reasoning.
I don't see the sword in the Raphael painting though. :(
It should be there !
Pretty awesome to see it in Old paintings so long ago, with a king and it is considerably older than that, But then there it Sits ! Right in front of all future generations to see, see a true survivor of history, that has served and probably killed, so many :) Cool story !
Oh wow, that was a lot of kale to digest. To begin with, black Athena is a ridiculous book It draws conclusions from data without even considering other ideas. Bernal wears cultural blinders and can only see what he wishes to see.
You can't take Classical Greece and extrapolate Archaic Greece from it. They are two completely different peoples and cultures!
He makes some stupendously stupid statements about the settlement of Pre Mycenaean by Africans that are patently false.
The Greeks learned to write from the Phoenicians? Really? Um...ever hear of Linear B? A wholly Greek script used by the Mycenaeans.
The thing you have to remember is that the entire ancient world underwent a cataclysmic change around 1200 bc. Entire empires were wiped out by the so called "Sea Peoples". Mycenaeans, the Hittites, the Cannanites, the Minoans, ALL of the ancient superpowers suddenly disappear. Only Egypt survives. Who were the Sea Peoples? No one really knows but, one thing appears to be true. They absorbed the people they conquered. This means that cultures of the Med Basin were amalgamated. West Asian, African and European ideas got all mixed together. The subsequent 2-300 years are called "The Greek Dark Ages". There is a complete break in historical continuity at this point. Very little is known from this period. One thing that is known is that this is the period when the Hellenic Greeks came into the Peloponnese and displaced the old Mycenaean culture. In the process they adopted the ancient Mycenaean gods, history and customs to their own culture. This is the age of Homer and the early Hellenes. It is during this time that Homer is thought to have adapted the Phoenician alphabet for his own uses. For the next 800 years the Iliad and the Odyssey will be the tool used to teach writing to the Greeks. What follows is the Classical Hellenistic period. The Era of Cleisthenes and Athenian Democracy, the era of the Spartan Agoge and the Persian wars. Throughout this period there is a massive sharing of ideas and information throughout the Aegean and Mediterranean basins. In the following Alexandrine era the pace of cross pollination only increases. With the ascent of Rome the entirety of Europe, North Africa and western Asia essentially become a unified cultural entity. So, as you can see, the movement of ideas throughout the region is multi-directional. Bernal's idea that Africans somehow settled Greece is patently false as is the notion that Africa is the source of Greek culture. One could just as easily claim that Egyptian Culture springs from Greece as the Ptolemys were Greeks. Yup, Cleopatra was not African at all. She was Greek and Greek was the language of the Egyptian court. These are facts but, they do not validate the claim. The rest of your post is just so much goblty gook. As I said in a previous post, You are too focused on what you want to be true to even entertain the idea that you may be wrong. Broaden your horizons my friend. If you truly want to know I'll be happy to share a number of scientific resources with you on the subject.
Actually the guillotine was used as early as the 1200s. A simple wiki search can tell you THAT much. Perhaps researching YOUR opinions BEFORE posting might be a better idea?!?
As a seven year old I have always found it difficult to carry on a grown up conversation. Once the conversation goes on long enough it degrades into nothing more than an argument. Once it starts to become an argument it will never become a conversation once again. Each grown up becomes entrenched within their belief/thought pattern. The more one grown up argues for their cause the other grown up becomes further entrenched. This goes on for a length of time with the argument becoming more heated then accusations start to be flung around. Someone will eventually become so heated that they will start to play various games such as name calling with the intent of provoking a response that is hoped to allow an escalation with the name calling, accusations. As always in the process the ego is involved with most grown ups. Having spent years in their respective field of research or profession they are unable to make any concessions or reach any compromise.
There can be a number of reasons for this happening, from both a physical perspective as well as a emotional/ mind/spirit perspective.
Either way, be it from a physical or mental emotional perspective, the absorption and elimination process becomes hampered. This slowing down of the process inhibits proper absorption of the nutrients etc that the body requires to survive and the hampered elimination process allows waste products to accumulate in various parts of the body. These waste produces that are accumulating if they cannot be removed via the bowels it can come forth via the mouth as in verbal diarrhea. This can also contribute to the inability from an emotional mental perspective to ‘let things go’ and to ‘take on new ideas’.
It is important to be mindful that this can happen either way. A physical problem not addressed in a timely manner can led to emotional mental difficulties. Or a mental emotional problem not addressed can and will eventually manifest in the physical.
Either way if not careful one becomes physically, mentally and emotionally anal retentive.
Looks like a magic thing-a-ma-jigger.
Itigilov Lama left a message, but the new generation of monk is not familiar with the secret intellectual, and physical exercises for restarting the body . When said to the Dalai Lama, he just smiled and said that there are yogis who can meditate in a very long time ....
The Negro is used to identify Black people in Sub-Saharan Africa, Melanesia and Australia. I am not living in the 1990’s the citations I posted are all the latest research.
There is no evidence in the articles you posted of amh in Asia 45,00 years ago in Eurasia. The http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/rich-sexual-past-between-modern-humans-and-neandertals-revealed This paper mentions possible interbreeding between Denisovans and 440,000-year-old ancestors of Neandertals. Moreover the article noted that “Last year, researchers discovered that a 40,000-year-old modern human from Romania had a Neandertal great-great-great grandparent—but this Neandertal genome does not live on in present-day humans “. This makes it clear that the genome was not passed on so this does not support your theory about hybrid Anatomically modern human-Neanderthal population.
You said “ I said they left Africa 60,000 years bp, and stopped in the Levant for a while and mixed with Neanderthals about 55,000 years bp. The last common ancestor of Europeans and Native Americans lived in what is today So Russia about 45,000 years bp. Since you love articles so much.. “ This is false. There is no evidence that amh were in the Levant 60kya, or the ancestor of Native Americans and Europeans living in Siberia 45kya. The earliest examples of amh in Euroasia come from Spain and date to 45,000bp not the Levant.In the http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v505/n7481/full/nature12736.html#affil-auth article there is discussion of an amh, Mal’ta man, dating to 24kya—not 45kya as you allege.
The Qafzeh-Skhul hominids are important to this discussion because you claim the first hybrid AMH-Neanderthal appeared in the Levant, but as noted by T. Holliday the ancient people in the Levant are identified as Negroes, or Sub-Saharan Africans.
Stop trying to steal the heritage of the Black Native Americans. Stop making things up.
FOUND, why should the hall of records be underground. if you draw a line through the pyramids of Giza a line through the pyramids of Saqqarah and a line through the pyramids of Abusir they intersect at Heliopolis, which was once one of the largest cities in Egypt and the capitol of the cult of Amun Ra. Mentioned in the bible as the city of On, it was believed to be the location of the 'mound of creation' from which the world arose from the waters (or where humanity began again after the flood). Sadly it was mostly destroyed by the Persians in 525 BC
Yes eventhough you claim you are a descendant of the first African indentured servants who landed in America in 1619, you can still be expressing implicit racism, because you have adopted the views of the larger society in relation to how you view African people historically.The literature supports the view that Blacks can demonstrate implicit racism toward other Blacks.
Again, there's a world of difference between using craniometry to assign a skull to a contemporary population and using it to determine the racial affinities of an ancient skull to a modern population. Forensic science is about the only place it's useful in the age of genomic identification.
You need to work on your reading comprehension. I said they left Africa 60,000 years bp, and stopped in the Levant for a while and mixed with Neanderthals about 55,000 years bp. The last common ancestor of Europeans and Native Americans lived in what is today So Russia about 45,000 years bp. Since you love articles so much...here's a link.
In fact the 1st out of Africa event is reliably dated to between 70,000 and 80,000 years ago (the southern migration). Those people were tha ancestors of today's Andaman Islanders, Negritos, Melanesians, Trobriand Islanders, Papuans and Australian Aborigines.They are a monophyletic group and only distantly related to all other humans. BTW, there is evidence of another migration of AMH out of Africa pre 100,000 years bp but, these people seem to cave been absorbed into the Altai Mt population of Neanderthals and left no living descendants.
Um...humans and Neanderthals did not interbreed? Where have you been for the last 5 years? The non sub Saharan human genome is about 20% Neanderthal. Every non African human has between 2 and 5% Neanderthal genes.
Here's a nice synopsis of the most recent data.
Now the Es Skhul, Qafzhe and Et Tabun hominids are only 20,000 years old? Laughable! Try 80-120,000 years bp! Where do you get your information?
OK, to be fair, I see where the confusion lays. The dates of 20,000 -4,000 bp are far to late to test the hypothesis that humans and Neanderthals hybridized. It is also true that Africans did migrate to the Levant at about this time...and then migrated back into Africa and back again. However, by 20,000 bp Neanderthals were functionally extinct so, you wouldn't expect to find hybrid people in that place at that time. (remember, I said all NON AFRICANS have Neanderthal genes?)
Earlier remains from the Mt Carmel region tell a different story. The contemporary material from those same caves dated between 80 and 120,000 years bp, the so called Mt Carmel Hominids, show a great example of hybrid features and may reflect the first AMH migration out of Africa. (remember those hybrids in the Altai?). Unfortunately, we have no DNA to say either way.
In other words, the data you have presented does not preclude of contradict my statement at all.
Once again..."Negroid" is a descriptive term and does not have anything to do with racial ancestry. It's like saying "some Africans have epicanthic folds, a typically Asiatic trait". This does not mean that Africans are of Asian descent. It simply indicated that some African populations share a trait that is commonly seen in Asians. In other words, their eyes look like the eyes of Asians. These terms have no scientific validity.
"The Qafzeh-Skhul hominids have sometimes been refered to as "Proto-CroMagnons" (e.g., Howell 1957; Vandermeersch 1996) because of their presumed similarity to the famous Aurignacian-associated hominids from Western Europe....Specifically [Brace], he notes that "in both the details of its dental and craniological size and from Qafzeh is an unlikely proto-Cro-Magnon, but it makes a fine model for the ancestors of modern sub-Saharan Africans"(p.63).
How is this statement even germane to the discussion at hand?
LOL, the rest of your post is just a statement of the obvious. No meat on that bone at all. All explained away in my previous statements.
"In conclusion, Willy you are propagating fabrications about the origin of East Asians, Europeans and Native Americans, and the Out of Africa event. Craniofacial evidence can identify ancient populations, and your claims about Native Americans originating from a mythical Central Asian AMH-Neanderthal hybridized population lacks any foundation. Stop making up falsehoods, in an attempt to make yourself right."
As I have said before, you need to broaden your reading material. The above statement is ridiculously out of date. Even the most hardened anti hybrid purists have had to acknowledge that the genomic evidence is incontrovertible. You're still living in the 90s.
Might I suggest you look at the genomic studies of Svante Paabo of the max Plank Institute or Dr Spencer Wells work on genomic tracking of human migrations?
I'm personally in favour of the signpost theory. the pyramids being built by an older more advanced race of humans from before the flood 12500 years ago that build them in such a way as to say hello, we have an advanced knowledge of mathematics and astronomy as can be seen by the way the pyramids have been built. we have lined them up in such a way that they point to a spot on the other side of the Nile where the truth can be found. Unfortunately the temple that held the truth was taken over by Egyptian priests who withheld the truth in order to have power over the population in much the same way that the catholic church withholds the truth in order to control the population. Sadly the temple at some stage in history was destroyed by invading forces and very little of it is left now.
I totally agree. I think Dr Hawass is a close minded, bigoted fool and we will never learn the truth while he is the head of Egyptian studies.
At Ancient Origins, we believe that one of the most important fields of knowledge we can pursue as human beings is our beginnings. And while some people may seem content with the story as it stands, our view is that there exists countless mysteries, scientific anomalies and surprising artifacts that have yet to be discovered and explained.
The goal of Ancient Origins is to highlight recent archaeological discoveries, peer-reviewed academic research and evidence, as well as offering alternative viewpoints and explanations of science, archaeology, mythology, religion and history around the globe.
We’re the only Pop Archaeology site combining scientific research with out-of-the-box perspectives.
By bringing together top experts and authors, this archaeology website explores lost civilizations, examines sacred writings, tours ancient places, investigates ancient discoveries and questions mysterious happenings. Our open community is dedicated to digging into the origins of our species on planet earth, and question wherever the discoveries might take us. We seek to retell the story of our beginnings.