I thought archaeological evidence older than 11,000 years old was found in South America, thus conclusively contradicting the Clovis First model? Or is the rapid colonization referred to the model that was changed to account for that evidence?
Much of the story of the domestication of cattle has been uncovered in the last five years. This research shows that the evolutionary origins of all domestic cattle lie in the wild aurochs, which ranged through Europe, Asia, and North Africa, before being driven extinct in 1627. Aurochsen, immortalized in the 17,000 year old cave paintings of Lascaux, looked something like cows on steroids; they were bigger, more muscled, and had larger horns than most modern cows.
Between 7,000 and 10,000 years ago, people in the Middle East began to domesticate wild aurochsen living nearby through the process of artificial selection. These early humans saw the advantage of maintaining aurochs for their personal use, as opposed to relying on what they could gain from hunting wild animals. As they began to live more closely with aurochsen, they spurred the evolution of their animals by selecting for individuals with particular traits. This may have been done consciously or unconsciously. For example, perhaps naturally docile animals were the only ones that the herdspeople could prevent from escaping, so without anyone intending it, ancestral cattle herds ended up with an unusually high frequency of gene versions that confer a quiet temperament. Other traits that differentiate domestic cattle from aurochs (like small horns) may have been consciously chosen. In either case, humans likely selected which individuals would be part of their herds and which individuals would be mated to maintain the herd — all the while, favoring individuals with traits that made them more useful to us. Through many generations of this process, an ancestral population of wild aurochs evolved into the animals that we recognize as cows.
It's not about Dogma. It's about evidence. What you call dogma is actually just what is supported by actual solid evidence.. Until there is solid evidence that contradicts and points somewhere else (such as that talked about in this story) you are relying on guesswork and / or fantasy.
I agree that human habitation likely goes back even further than this though. Because I find it highly unlikely anyone has been fortunate enough to find the absolute earliest evidence that's out there (and that's even if there is evidence still existing for the earliest people). Sooner or later someone will find something from a time even earlier than talked about in this story.
Same thing is true when the earliest use of fire by humans is talked about. It's continually pushed back earlier and earlier with new discoveries.
Fantastic! I love it when the OLD DOGMA is upset by new evidence! And I strongly suspect human exploration and habitation of North America goes far beyond 24 kya which will upset the old dogma even more.
“The lords of Quiche consulted their book when they sat in council, and their name for it was Popol Vuh or "Council Book." Because this book contained an account of how the forefathers of their own lordly lineages had exiled themselves from a faraway city called Tulan, they sometimes described it as "the writings about Tulan." Because a later generation of lords had obtained the book by going on a pilgrimage that took them across water on a causeway, they titled it<b> "The Light That Came from Across the Sea." </b>And because the book told of events that happened before the first sunrise and of a time when the forefathers hid themselves and the stones that contained the spirit familiars of their gods in forests, they also titled it "Our Place in the Shadows."
“AND THIS IS OUR ROOT, WE WHO ARE THE QUICHE PEOPLE. And there came to be a crowd of penitents and sacrificers.*(351) It wasn't only four who came into being then, but there were four mothers for us, the Quiche people. There were different names for each of the peoples when they multiplied, there in the east. Their names became numerous: Sovereign Oloman, Cohah, Quenech Ahau, as the names of the people who were there in the east are spoken. They multiplied, and it is known that the Tams and Ilocs began then.<b> They came from the same place, there in the east.</b>” (p.87).
“There was nothing they could offer for sustenance, but even so they lifted their faces to the sky. They didn't know where they were going. They did this for a long time, when they were there in the grasslands: black people, white people, people of many faces, people of many languages, uncertain, there at the edge of the sky. “(p.88)
“Such was the disappearance and loss of Jaguar Quitze, Jaguar Night,<b> Mahucutah, and True Jaguar, the first people to come across the sea, from the east.</b> They came here in ancient times. When they died they were already old. They had a reputation for penitence and sacrifice.”(p.107)
“AND THEN THEY REMEMBERED WHAT HAD BEEN SAID ABOUT THE EAST. This is when they remembered the instructions of their fathers. The ancient things received from their fathers were not lost. The tribes gave them their wives, becoming their fathers-in-law as they took wives. And there were three of them who said, as they were about to go away<b>: "We are going to the east, where our fathers came from,"</b> they said, then they followed their road. The three of them were representative sons: Cocaib was the name of the son of Jaguar Quitze who represented all the Cauecs.*(447) Coacutec was the name of the son of Jaguar Night who served as the sole representative of the Greathouses. Coahau was the name of the only son of Mahucutah, representing the Lord Quiches. So these are the names of those who went across the sea. There were only three who went, but they had skill and knowledge. Their being was not quite that of mere humans. They advised all their brothers, elder and younger, who were left behind. They were glad to go: "We're not dying. We're coming back," they said when they went, yet it was these same three who went clear across the sea. And then they arrived in the east; they went there to receive lordship. Next comes the name of the lord with dominion over those of the east, where they arrived.”(p.107)
The pic certainly looks like Melanesians not Native Americans at all. And then there is the rock wall investigated by the televison program “America Unearthed” in the same area near San Francisco. Their conclusion was it had been built by ancient Chinese explorers or perhaps Melanesians.
I understand and should not have strayed off the topic Mayan track Clyde. I have a habit of looking at the scope of possibilities and interactions as a whole when discussing Central and South America. Sorry for the diversion Sir.
Can you cite the source that claims the jade at Chichen Itza came from China. Jade artifacts were made not only in China, they were also made in Mexico and Saharan Africa around the same time. Archaeologists claim the Mayan jade probably came from Guatemala and Honduras.
In the West we think of China when we think about the East. China and Southeast Asia to people living in Mexico lies to the West of Mexico across the Pacific Ocean. The Maya were talking about the area of Eastern Mexico along the Atlantic Ocean. Sahagun said that these Eastern settlers of Mexico landed at Panotha, on the Mexican Gulf Coast.
Then there are the unique Fuegians, who’s dialects have origins from Australia and Melanesia. As you make note on your blog, there were more than likely several different migrations from all directions.
I think that you had share brief knowledge about this topic but still i want to know that what will happen if same thing will going to happen in next upcoming years.
Absolutely agreed, there are various information sources on the flood in historical literature. Just because something is an older account doesn't mean that its the correct or even factual account.. After looking up the various things written about in this article, literally.. It shares nothing past A strange birth (Of a stone in Mithra's case), and.. If you want to draw conclusions Christ's crucifixion and Mithra killing a bull. Then he ate with the divine..So...Yeah definitely connected right there.. Green man? There is literally nothing at all to explain it outside of people's thoughts there is no story or any kind of text found to this day.
All of this is simply fascinating...Neanderthals mating with our ancient ancestors...even earlier than we have speculated. WOW! But I do not think that our ancient ancestors Neanderthal or who ever...saw a difference between themselves. Maybe all that they saw was all that there was to see: another bi-pedal animal that looked a lot like they did and then nature took its course. There is no proof that they saw any difference or had various categories for more or less evolved species than themselves. This is all down to us and our need to have what we consider to be a logical explanation for something that we would not have even considered...were we there and had the opportunity. Oh, the humanity! Anyway none of it matters now because it was done thousands of years ago and nothing is going to change it.
I feel like a jerk saying this, but after doing research into the said things mentioned in your article I couldn't find them..The closest parallel I found was that Mithra (The one that wasn't the Greco-Roman mystery religion) was born of a stone, murdered a bull, and ate dinner with the divine.. As for the green man the only evidence that seems to be found is the use of him in architectural elements which quite a few believe to have been a real man that inspired the usage as such and just got engrained in people's minds, which then switched to animal heads around the 5th century AD.. I always look at evidence and try not to believe or refute it just at face value, but investigate further...This really isn't the "Mythos" of Jesus.
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I thought archaeological evidence older than 11,000 years old was found in South America, thus conclusively contradicting the Clovis First model? Or is the rapid colonization referred to the model that was changed to account for that evidence?
Much of the story of the domestication of cattle has been uncovered in the last five years. This research shows that the evolutionary origins of all domestic cattle lie in the wild aurochs, which ranged through Europe, Asia, and North Africa, before being driven extinct in 1627. Aurochsen, immortalized in the 17,000 year old cave paintings of Lascaux, looked something like cows on steroids; they were bigger, more muscled, and had larger horns than most modern cows.
Between 7,000 and 10,000 years ago, people in the Middle East began to domesticate wild aurochsen living nearby through the process of artificial selection. These early humans saw the advantage of maintaining aurochs for their personal use, as opposed to relying on what they could gain from hunting wild animals. As they began to live more closely with aurochsen, they spurred the evolution of their animals by selecting for individuals with particular traits. This may have been done consciously or unconsciously. For example, perhaps naturally docile animals were the only ones that the herdspeople could prevent from escaping, so without anyone intending it, ancestral cattle herds ended up with an unusually high frequency of gene versions that confer a quiet temperament. Other traits that differentiate domestic cattle from aurochs (like small horns) may have been consciously chosen. In either case, humans likely selected which individuals would be part of their herds and which individuals would be mated to maintain the herd — all the while, favoring individuals with traits that made them more useful to us. Through many generations of this process, an ancestral population of wild aurochs evolved into the animals that we recognize as cows.
http://www.pnas.org/content/110/15/E1398.full.pdf
Interesting Stuff, thanks.
It's not about Dogma. It's about evidence. What you call dogma is actually just what is supported by actual solid evidence.. Until there is solid evidence that contradicts and points somewhere else (such as that talked about in this story) you are relying on guesswork and / or fantasy.
I agree that human habitation likely goes back even further than this though. Because I find it highly unlikely anyone has been fortunate enough to find the absolute earliest evidence that's out there (and that's even if there is evidence still existing for the earliest people). Sooner or later someone will find something from a time even earlier than talked about in this story.
Same thing is true when the earliest use of fire by humans is talked about. It's continually pushed back earlier and earlier with new discoveries.
Excellent study done on the meaning of the word Mayan word Tulan.
http://www.mesoweb.com/articles/tulan/Tulan.pdf
This happened because in Canada they are “Allowed” to dig past the level of the imaginary “Stop Sign”.
Please detail the documentation for your claim that the jade was from China and the the existence of the Chins.
Fantastic! I love it when the OLD DOGMA is upset by new evidence! And I strongly suspect human exploration and habitation of North America goes far beyond 24 kya which will upset the old dogma even more.
POPOL VUH: THE MAYAN BOOK OF THE DAWN OF LIFE , translated by Dennis Tedlock with commentary based on the ancient knowledge of the modern Quiche Maya. http://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/uploads/POPOL-VUH-THE-MAYAN-BOOK-OF-THE-DAWN-OF-LIFE-translated-by-Dennis-Tedlock.pdf
“The lords of Quiche consulted their book when they sat in council, and their name for it was Popol Vuh or "Council Book." Because this book contained an account of how the forefathers of their own lordly lineages had exiled themselves from a faraway city called Tulan, they sometimes described it as "the writings about Tulan." Because a later generation of lords had obtained the book by going on a pilgrimage that took them across water on a causeway, they titled it<b> "The Light That Came from Across the Sea." </b>And because the book told of events that happened before the first sunrise and of a time when the forefathers hid themselves and the stones that contained the spirit familiars of their gods in forests, they also titled it "Our Place in the Shadows."
“AND THIS IS OUR ROOT, WE WHO ARE THE QUICHE PEOPLE. And there came to be a crowd of penitents and sacrificers.*(351) It wasn't only four who came into being then, but there were four mothers for us, the Quiche people. There were different names for each of the peoples when they multiplied, there in the east. Their names became numerous: Sovereign Oloman, Cohah, Quenech Ahau, as the names of the people who were there in the east are spoken. They multiplied, and it is known that the Tams and Ilocs began then.<b> They came from the same place, there in the east.</b>” (p.87).
“There was nothing they could offer for sustenance, but even so they lifted their faces to the sky. They didn't know where they were going. They did this for a long time, when they were there in the grasslands: black people, white people, people of many faces, people of many languages, uncertain, there at the edge of the sky. “(p.88)
“Such was the disappearance and loss of Jaguar Quitze, Jaguar Night,<b> Mahucutah, and True Jaguar, the first people to come across the sea, from the east.</b> They came here in ancient times. When they died they were already old. They had a reputation for penitence and sacrifice.”(p.107)
“AND THEN THEY REMEMBERED WHAT HAD BEEN SAID ABOUT THE EAST. This is when they remembered the instructions of their fathers. The ancient things received from their fathers were not lost. The tribes gave them their wives, becoming their fathers-in-law as they took wives. And there were three of them who said, as they were about to go away<b>: "We are going to the east, where our fathers came from,"</b> they said, then they followed their road. The three of them were representative sons: Cocaib was the name of the son of Jaguar Quitze who represented all the Cauecs.*(447) Coacutec was the name of the son of Jaguar Night who served as the sole representative of the Greathouses. Coahau was the name of the only son of Mahucutah, representing the Lord Quiches. So these are the names of those who went across the sea. There were only three who went, but they had skill and knowledge. Their being was not quite that of mere humans. They advised all their brothers, elder and younger, who were left behind. They were glad to go: "We're not dying. We're coming back," they said when they went, yet it was these same three who went clear across the sea. And then they arrived in the east; they went there to receive lordship. Next comes the name of the lord with dominion over those of the east, where they arrived.”(p.107)
The pic certainly looks like Melanesians not Native Americans at all. And then there is the rock wall investigated by the televison program “America Unearthed” in the same area near San Francisco. Their conclusion was it had been built by ancient Chinese explorers or perhaps Melanesians.
It appears that there were also Melanesians in California.The picture of the Tcholovoni Indian Tribe Hunting on the Shores of the Bay of San Francisco (1816) suggest that these people were Melanesians. See: http://www.books-about-california.com/Images/SF_100_Years_Ago/Indians_Hunting.jpg
I understand and should not have strayed off the topic Mayan track Clyde. I have a habit of looking at the scope of possibilities and interactions as a whole when discussing Central and South America. Sorry for the diversion Sir.
Can you cite the source that claims the jade at Chichen Itza came from China. Jade artifacts were made not only in China, they were also made in Mexico and Saharan Africa around the same time. Archaeologists claim the Mayan jade probably came from Guatemala and Honduras.
In the West we think of China when we think about the East. China and Southeast Asia to people living in Mexico lies to the West of Mexico across the Pacific Ocean. The Maya were talking about the area of Eastern Mexico along the Atlantic Ocean. Sahagun said that these Eastern settlers of Mexico landed at Panotha, on the Mexican Gulf Coast.
I tend to believe that the Maya originated in South East Asia.
Then there are the unique Fuegians, who’s dialects have origins from Australia and Melanesia. As you make note on your blog, there were more than likely several different migrations from all directions.
That quote is not from the Popol Vuh. Where is the quote from the Popol Vuh that "refers to their ancestors coming from the East?"
I think that you had share brief knowledge about this topic but still i want to know that what will happen if same thing will going to happen in next upcoming years.
Absolutely agreed, there are various information sources on the flood in historical literature. Just because something is an older account doesn't mean that its the correct or even factual account.. After looking up the various things written about in this article, literally.. It shares nothing past A strange birth (Of a stone in Mithra's case), and.. If you want to draw conclusions Christ's crucifixion and Mithra killing a bull. Then he ate with the divine..So...Yeah definitely connected right there.. Green man? There is literally nothing at all to explain it outside of people's thoughts there is no story or any kind of text found to this day.
All of this is simply fascinating...Neanderthals mating with our ancient ancestors...even earlier than we have speculated. WOW! But I do not think that our ancient ancestors Neanderthal or who ever...saw a difference between themselves. Maybe all that they saw was all that there was to see: another bi-pedal animal that looked a lot like they did and then nature took its course. There is no proof that they saw any difference or had various categories for more or less evolved species than themselves. This is all down to us and our need to have what we consider to be a logical explanation for something that we would not have even considered...were we there and had the opportunity. Oh, the humanity! Anyway none of it matters now because it was done thousands of years ago and nothing is going to change it.
I feel like a jerk saying this, but after doing research into the said things mentioned in your article I couldn't find them..The closest parallel I found was that Mithra (The one that wasn't the Greco-Roman mystery religion) was born of a stone, murdered a bull, and ate dinner with the divine.. As for the green man the only evidence that seems to be found is the use of him in architectural elements which quite a few believe to have been a real man that inspired the usage as such and just got engrained in people's minds, which then switched to animal heads around the 5th century AD.. I always look at evidence and try not to believe or refute it just at face value, but investigate further...This really isn't the "Mythos" of Jesus.
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