It is my opinion that the world would be a better place if all out man made religions were replaced with the straight forward and practical teachings of Zoraster. These are workable.
Very nice and informative article, apart from one glaring omission. You can’t really discuss the relationship of ancient Greeks with death without mentioning the Mysteries of Eleusis. And that is for two important reasons: One, these were the most important mysteries/festival in ancient Greece, more than the Olympic Games for example, it was regarded a must-do by Greeks, the participation wasn’t limited only to Greeks and they were held unbrokenly every year for more than 2000 years. Two, their main theme was the afterlife and the major goal for the initiates was to overcome the fear of death.
So the Eleusinian Mysteries complements very nicely the well established notion that Greeks didn’t like death, which is true, but they also had ways to face that fear and overcome it, which would explain the bravery they demonstrated in battle (against the mighty Persians for example) or the bravery they demonstrated against established/traditional authority (see democracy, parrhesia etc).
Ancient Origins features already a few good articles about the Mysteries of Eleusis. With relation to parrhesia I would suggest Foucault lectures at Berkley: https://foucault.info/parrhesia/
There's no doubting Akhenaten's attempted radical reworking of Ancient Egypt's religion and religious practice and the fact that he upset not only the religious norms, he also upset more than a few "people in High places" with his extremely radical ideas on what was and what wasn't the way to proceed with the somewhat elevated position of The Aten. This being a particular manifestation of the sun god. Amenhotep 3rd started the fascination and promotion of this, up 'til then, obscure and less noticed manifestation of the sun even naming a river barge after it. "The Aten Gleams" which he had built for his wife(?).
So, Akhenaten (Amenhotep 4th) took the ball and ran with it probably starting during the co-regency with his father. He also wanted and needed to make himself the singular conduit that had access to this God. The only one able to "commune". To that end, Akhenaten had to portray a really special persona. Different, original and unique to himself. He also had to be, like a God, all things to all people. Represental of both male and female in one body. Equally one to the other for himself, for his subjects and for The Aten. This is, where I believe, anyway, where the strange and compelling art style of The Amarna Period comes from. The exaggerated styling, the androgynous look, especially of Pharaoh and his immediate family. (to show an ongoing continuity of "Godliness" within the Royal Family). To give the impression of "being of his people but in a completely different way and existing and operating on a completely different level to the norm at the same time of being fully aware and omnipotently understanding of everything that was the norm. To truly be in a God like state of grace at all times. Any and all commune with The Aten could only be conducted through Akhenaten himself. Simply put, a religious fanatic and iconoclast answerable to no one except The Aten and completely devoted to himself and the family that would continue his philosophy. The art style and the religious ideas and practices, as far as we understand them, reflects this. It also explains how these beliefs alienated himself from all others and at an alarming rate. An self perpetually accelerating decent into a God like self. A type of self absorbed madness.a person who probably became more and more difficult to reach or even understand.
People have argued, some very convincingly, that Akhenaten was possibly the first monotheistic. In as much as he narrowed the religious pantheon down to The Aten. That all the other God's were just "characteristics" of The Aten, you can argue that point very well. However, that may have been the case on the ideas that Amenhotep 4th inherited and expanded on from his father, Amenhotep 3rd. But, did it become the case that Akhenaten came to believe that he and The Aten became one in the same. That Akhenaten existed on two different levels. One, as The Aten and the other as Akhenaten the King of Egypt. That, in effect, he held communion with himself, justifying himself to himself and, in the process, deifying himself????
Hence, after his death, he became an unspeakable monster. "The Great Criminal", "The Destroyer of Maat". The one whose name had to be obliterated from memory for the insult and damage he did to the Gods???
Personally, I don't really buy the idea that Akhenaten was a visionary monotheistic ahead of his time. Unquestionably his ideas were unique but, its said, there's a fine line between genius and madness. I think Akhenaten was clinically quite mad. But he was also a Pharaoh of Egypt. His name is remembered. Even some, if not most of his ideas have survived. This is what The Pharoahs desired most of all..... to live forever. Conversely, you could argue, that he was also forever damned. An enigma wrapped in an enigma.
One things for sure, he was certainly "different".
Except the basic presmise is Wrong! Akhenaten was raised royal by his mother. Moses was raised Royal by his husband-less stepmother. His baby name was Senemnut, and Pharoah’s daughter was Hatshepsut. Moses was eventually elevated to Crown prince, ruling the North of the country as the representative of the “great House” (=pharoah), under the title Tuthmosis (ii). He then ran off and a distant cousin of the king of the similar age assumed his identity and began destroying all the statues and monuments of Moses and his stepmother (tuthmosis iii). He became King (Amenhotep II), and his second-born son succeeded him as Tuthmosis iv/Amenhotep III. His first-born son was Tutankhamun, who died in the plague, and his second son by a lesser wife became Akhenaten. At the time of the Exodus events he was 7, so an old priest Ay stepped in as regent, married his mother, and kept alive the myth that Egypt was still a functionsl superpower (they had no army). After 7 years Akenaten was thrown into the top seat, and after he had established power, did his best to follow the God he had witnessed embarrass the traditional gods of Egypt, and named his own son after his beloved older brother.
It is a far stretch of the imagination for anybody to bring forward their argument regarding so called ‘proof’ of a homosexual relationship between David & Jonathon. I agrees that there is an abundant lack of evident “…leaving insufficient reasons to suggest any sort of romantic relationship between them.” Further within the article it is noted that “A marriage between David and Jonathan would have been very problematic politically and it was therefore unlikely.” And is rife with unqualified comparison of what the culture was 2000 years ago and what is is now. Can’t anyone just accept that they were very close friends without imagining that they were homosexuals. Blurring a close couple of friends from 2,000 years ago ( + - ) into an argument for homosexuality without any basis of fact or evidence is merely a display of supreme ignorance. Would anyone today like to be known for something based merely on what some people may think or suppose to exist ? Further, why does one feel the need to stick their noses into something current, or laughably, from soooo long ago. Good Grief !!!!
Tens of thousands of us left our vehicles the bright Spring afternoon an enormous spaceship stopped and hovered above the motorway that passes Argenteuil northwest of Paris. Seated in the back seat, we heard my sister-in-law scream out loud: “Merde, c’est un vaisseau spatial!”(Shit, its a spaceship!) as she slammed down hard on the brakes to stop us from going into the car in front.
It was completely silent. Nobody seemed to be talking, & in the days before mobile phones, I, a photographer, had left my camera at home to go shopping too.
The machine was absolutely concretely real to the view- just like looking at a very large Cruise Ship, except that it was round, multi-storied, windowed, above us, and at least 500ft in diameter.
Nobody spoke, everyone necks craned upwards, gawped like happy children.
After what seemed like an age, but was no more that about 10 minutes, it just vanished, moving soundlessly so fast. immeasureably accelerating away to nothing in a second.
Everyone gradually got into their cars. We did too. We did not speak, either then or at home over our meal, about it at all.
A few years later I went travelling again. And I stayed at home too in London, and used to read through Blue Book reports & The Vedas, and the Bible, and various Hindu Myths.
And for exercise in Summer, after dark would go for long walks at night, observing the skies, and enjoying the quiet.
I saw, on many occasions, dancing coloured, shape-shifting orbs, & once had the treat of a vision of what looked like a golden Christ seated on a golden orb with a flotilla of similar beings close behind Him.
I think people need to make their own experience, to dedicate possibly several years of their lives making themselves free enough and available enough to have such experiences too.
Tonight I ask myself, for the first time, how many others did anything to enrich themselves after the Argenteuil Spaceship. It’s up to you, really to see just how far you can push it!!!
Small minded people have small ideas. Small ideas with absolutely no evidence to back them up. As usual Mr Opinions Are Like Aresholes, has another one
Oh, No one pays him to talk shit.
Sheer utter lunacy! tribe, culture etc or not they or someone has to believe this pure superstition! Whoever came up with these ideas would be deemed mentally ill in our society and be locked away. I understand its how they live, but posion injected righ in to the eyes and oh when/if your sight comes back you’ll be a warrior lol yea okayyyy
“in the most rapid, human-facilitated megafauna extinction documented to date.”
Now that was 18+milliion years ago – and if in those times the animal became extinct as a result of HUMAN FACILITATION – then our planet should have long time gone by completed destroyed permanently
Its fun to sit & think like the old philosophers, a past time that has long been forgotton only to benefit of modern day government. But the Big Bang or combustion is were I always like to start asking the question how does something come from nothing. But it is this very article that helps solidify my thoughts. I imagine a extremely cold or fro(zen) pitch black void that eventually succumbs to extreme heat or these hot pockets. Heat/ hot is the first sensation or primal feeling then we go back to cold which we now recognize. But its the extreme heat that produces vapor steam that is a form but not tangable but eventually there is precipitation where water or rain is formed from thin air so rain drops were essentially the first forms. Which explains why they say the isnt exactly round but more of an oval shape or egg same as a rain drop. Primative and simplified I know the science today is well beyond this mode of thinking. And with the studies of dark matter and all the high tech advancements I cannot wait to see what is uncovered. Its the pitch black void or frozen black hole where my mind seems to stop. But the hot bowl soup is a nice place to start. One last toast to knowledge before I put the bottle down. Lol!
A Canadian has been diagnosed as suffering from “climate change,” with heatwaves and poor air being responsible for his asthmatic condition.
“If we’re not looking at the underlying cause, and we’re just treating the symptoms, we’re just gonna keep falling further and further behind,” the emergency room doctor responsible for the diagnosis said.
Well, I'm asthmatic and dry warmth helps absolutely. And Canada is not warm like it is here in inland Australia. In fact, I'd say it's hardly warm at all. Still, mild warming in Canada and increasing CO2 will increase plant growth and airborne pollen loads there, so these might cancel any warming improvement to asthma out, leaving things much the same as they were before.
As for this article, it is much the same as we've seen before. It cannot make the connection between extremes in the past being natural and carbon-obsessed climate modelling being unnatural. In fact, it cannot make much at all except more grist for the fake mill that grinds humanity's future to make the wealthy and powerful wealthier and more powerful.
More resistance from the status quo, of course. No,no they say, you must not contradict our long-estsblished proofs in Clovis first. I’m no stone tool expert, but I’ve studied stone tools for 60 years. I see several pieces in the picture that appear capable of performing quite well, in spite of the fact that they may not be as hard as flint. What are the odds that random falling rocks could create symetrically formed tanged points? I see three there that could have been hafted pretty easily.
Mr Wagner.
It's not my responsibility to disprove your fantastical ideas. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” was a phrase made popular by Carl Sagan who reworded Laplace's principle, which says that “the weight of evidence for an extraordinary claim must be proportioned to its strangeness” (Gillispie et al., 1999). So I'd say it's your responsibility to provide the evidence to back up your claims. So please provide the links to the peer reviewed journals that contain the research proving your ideas.
Here you can navigate quickly through all comments made in any article sorted by date/time.
It is my opinion that the world would be a better place if all out man made religions were replaced with the straight forward and practical teachings of Zoraster. These are workable.
Very nice and informative article, apart from one glaring omission. You can’t really discuss the relationship of ancient Greeks with death without mentioning the Mysteries of Eleusis. And that is for two important reasons: One, these were the most important mysteries/festival in ancient Greece, more than the Olympic Games for example, it was regarded a must-do by Greeks, the participation wasn’t limited only to Greeks and they were held unbrokenly every year for more than 2000 years. Two, their main theme was the afterlife and the major goal for the initiates was to overcome the fear of death.
So the Eleusinian Mysteries complements very nicely the well established notion that Greeks didn’t like death, which is true, but they also had ways to face that fear and overcome it, which would explain the bravery they demonstrated in battle (against the mighty Persians for example) or the bravery they demonstrated against established/traditional authority (see democracy, parrhesia etc).
Ancient Origins features already a few good articles about the Mysteries of Eleusis. With relation to parrhesia I would suggest Foucault lectures at Berkley: https://foucault.info/parrhesia/
This site has a lovely gallery and posted on it are a few zodiac images.
https://www.ancient-origins.net/zodiac-002645
This one is from a book of miniture paintings. A book of time.
Maybe he was an early form of body builder that chose to work on unusual parts of his body...
The entire article does not mention that which he is most famous for and that is Astrology.
In geocentric Astrology the sun appears to revolve around the earth from our perspective.
Kepler was a friend and they were a collegues in Astrology.
There's no doubting Akhenaten's attempted radical reworking of Ancient Egypt's religion and religious practice and the fact that he upset not only the religious norms, he also upset more than a few "people in High places" with his extremely radical ideas on what was and what wasn't the way to proceed with the somewhat elevated position of The Aten. This being a particular manifestation of the sun god. Amenhotep 3rd started the fascination and promotion of this, up 'til then, obscure and less noticed manifestation of the sun even naming a river barge after it. "The Aten Gleams" which he had built for his wife(?).
So, Akhenaten (Amenhotep 4th) took the ball and ran with it probably starting during the co-regency with his father. He also wanted and needed to make himself the singular conduit that had access to this God. The only one able to "commune". To that end, Akhenaten had to portray a really special persona. Different, original and unique to himself. He also had to be, like a God, all things to all people. Represental of both male and female in one body. Equally one to the other for himself, for his subjects and for The Aten. This is, where I believe, anyway, where the strange and compelling art style of The Amarna Period comes from. The exaggerated styling, the androgynous look, especially of Pharaoh and his immediate family. (to show an ongoing continuity of "Godliness" within the Royal Family). To give the impression of "being of his people but in a completely different way and existing and operating on a completely different level to the norm at the same time of being fully aware and omnipotently understanding of everything that was the norm. To truly be in a God like state of grace at all times. Any and all commune with The Aten could only be conducted through Akhenaten himself. Simply put, a religious fanatic and iconoclast answerable to no one except The Aten and completely devoted to himself and the family that would continue his philosophy. The art style and the religious ideas and practices, as far as we understand them, reflects this. It also explains how these beliefs alienated himself from all others and at an alarming rate. An self perpetually accelerating decent into a God like self. A type of self absorbed madness.a person who probably became more and more difficult to reach or even understand.
People have argued, some very convincingly, that Akhenaten was possibly the first monotheistic. In as much as he narrowed the religious pantheon down to The Aten. That all the other God's were just "characteristics" of The Aten, you can argue that point very well. However, that may have been the case on the ideas that Amenhotep 4th inherited and expanded on from his father, Amenhotep 3rd. But, did it become the case that Akhenaten came to believe that he and The Aten became one in the same. That Akhenaten existed on two different levels. One, as The Aten and the other as Akhenaten the King of Egypt. That, in effect, he held communion with himself, justifying himself to himself and, in the process, deifying himself????
Hence, after his death, he became an unspeakable monster. "The Great Criminal", "The Destroyer of Maat". The one whose name had to be obliterated from memory for the insult and damage he did to the Gods???
Personally, I don't really buy the idea that Akhenaten was a visionary monotheistic ahead of his time. Unquestionably his ideas were unique but, its said, there's a fine line between genius and madness. I think Akhenaten was clinically quite mad. But he was also a Pharaoh of Egypt. His name is remembered. Even some, if not most of his ideas have survived. This is what The Pharoahs desired most of all..... to live forever. Conversely, you could argue, that he was also forever damned. An enigma wrapped in an enigma.
One things for sure, he was certainly "different".
Except the basic presmise is Wrong! Akhenaten was raised royal by his mother. Moses was raised Royal by his husband-less stepmother. His baby name was Senemnut, and Pharoah’s daughter was Hatshepsut. Moses was eventually elevated to Crown prince, ruling the North of the country as the representative of the “great House” (=pharoah), under the title Tuthmosis (ii). He then ran off and a distant cousin of the king of the similar age assumed his identity and began destroying all the statues and monuments of Moses and his stepmother (tuthmosis iii). He became King (Amenhotep II), and his second-born son succeeded him as Tuthmosis iv/Amenhotep III. His first-born son was Tutankhamun, who died in the plague, and his second son by a lesser wife became Akhenaten. At the time of the Exodus events he was 7, so an old priest Ay stepped in as regent, married his mother, and kept alive the myth that Egypt was still a functionsl superpower (they had no army). After 7 years Akenaten was thrown into the top seat, and after he had established power, did his best to follow the God he had witnessed embarrass the traditional gods of Egypt, and named his own son after his beloved older brother.
For me, Hannibal Barca above all others ancient or modern.
It is a far stretch of the imagination for anybody to bring forward their argument regarding so called ‘proof’ of a homosexual relationship between David & Jonathon. I agrees that there is an abundant lack of evident “…leaving insufficient reasons to suggest any sort of romantic relationship between them.” Further within the article it is noted that “A marriage between David and Jonathan would have been very problematic politically and it was therefore unlikely.” And is rife with unqualified comparison of what the culture was 2000 years ago and what is is now. Can’t anyone just accept that they were very close friends without imagining that they were homosexuals. Blurring a close couple of friends from 2,000 years ago ( + - ) into an argument for homosexuality without any basis of fact or evidence is merely a display of supreme ignorance. Would anyone today like to be known for something based merely on what some people may think or suppose to exist ? Further, why does one feel the need to stick their noses into something current, or laughably, from soooo long ago. Good Grief !!!!
Tens of thousands of us left our vehicles the bright Spring afternoon an enormous spaceship stopped and hovered above the motorway that passes Argenteuil northwest of Paris. Seated in the back seat, we heard my sister-in-law scream out loud: “Merde, c’est un vaisseau spatial!”(Shit, its a spaceship!) as she slammed down hard on the brakes to stop us from going into the car in front.
It was completely silent. Nobody seemed to be talking, & in the days before mobile phones, I, a photographer, had left my camera at home to go shopping too.
The machine was absolutely concretely real to the view- just like looking at a very large Cruise Ship, except that it was round, multi-storied, windowed, above us, and at least 500ft in diameter.
Nobody spoke, everyone necks craned upwards, gawped like happy children.
After what seemed like an age, but was no more that about 10 minutes, it just vanished, moving soundlessly so fast. immeasureably accelerating away to nothing in a second.
Everyone gradually got into their cars. We did too. We did not speak, either then or at home over our meal, about it at all.
A few years later I went travelling again. And I stayed at home too in London, and used to read through Blue Book reports & The Vedas, and the Bible, and various Hindu Myths.
And for exercise in Summer, after dark would go for long walks at night, observing the skies, and enjoying the quiet.
I saw, on many occasions, dancing coloured, shape-shifting orbs, & once had the treat of a vision of what looked like a golden Christ seated on a golden orb with a flotilla of similar beings close behind Him.
I think people need to make their own experience, to dedicate possibly several years of their lives making themselves free enough and available enough to have such experiences too.
Tonight I ask myself, for the first time, how many others did anything to enrich themselves after the Argenteuil Spaceship. It’s up to you, really to see just how far you can push it!!!
Small minded people have small ideas. Small ideas with absolutely no evidence to back them up. As usual Mr Opinions Are Like Aresholes, has another one
Oh, No one pays him to talk shit.
Sheer utter lunacy! tribe, culture etc or not they or someone has to believe this pure superstition! Whoever came up with these ideas would be deemed mentally ill in our society and be locked away. I understand its how they live, but posion injected righ in to the eyes and oh when/if your sight comes back you’ll be a warrior lol yea okayyyy
“in the most rapid, human-facilitated megafauna extinction documented to date.”
Now that was 18+milliion years ago – and if in those times the animal became extinct as a result of HUMAN FACILITATION – then our planet should have long time gone by completed destroyed permanently
Its fun to sit & think like the old philosophers, a past time that has long been forgotton only to benefit of modern day government. But the Big Bang or combustion is were I always like to start asking the question how does something come from nothing. But it is this very article that helps solidify my thoughts. I imagine a extremely cold or fro(zen) pitch black void that eventually succumbs to extreme heat or these hot pockets. Heat/ hot is the first sensation or primal feeling then we go back to cold which we now recognize. But its the extreme heat that produces vapor steam that is a form but not tangable but eventually there is precipitation where water or rain is formed from thin air so rain drops were essentially the first forms. Which explains why they say the isnt exactly round but more of an oval shape or egg same as a rain drop. Primative and simplified I know the science today is well beyond this mode of thinking. And with the studies of dark matter and all the high tech advancements I cannot wait to see what is uncovered. Its the pitch black void or frozen black hole where my mind seems to stop. But the hot bowl soup is a nice place to start. One last toast to knowledge before I put the bottle down. Lol!
A Canadian has been diagnosed as suffering from “climate change,” with heatwaves and poor air being responsible for his asthmatic condition.
“If we’re not looking at the underlying cause, and we’re just treating the symptoms, we’re just gonna keep falling further and further behind,” the emergency room doctor responsible for the diagnosis said.
Well, I'm asthmatic and dry warmth helps absolutely. And Canada is not warm like it is here in inland Australia. In fact, I'd say it's hardly warm at all. Still, mild warming in Canada and increasing CO2 will increase plant growth and airborne pollen loads there, so these might cancel any warming improvement to asthma out, leaving things much the same as they were before.
As for this article, it is much the same as we've seen before. It cannot make the connection between extremes in the past being natural and carbon-obsessed climate modelling being unnatural. In fact, it cannot make much at all except more grist for the fake mill that grinds humanity's future to make the wealthy and powerful wealthier and more powerful.
You can disagree all you want. But until you provide some reputable evidence, you're just telling us your half baked ideas.
NAGPRA mandated the return of all human remains to tribes in the areas of discovery to be reinterred, so they can’t be studied..
More resistance from the status quo, of course. No,no they say, you must not contradict our long-estsblished proofs in Clovis first. I’m no stone tool expert, but I’ve studied stone tools for 60 years. I see several pieces in the picture that appear capable of performing quite well, in spite of the fact that they may not be as hard as flint. What are the odds that random falling rocks could create symetrically formed tanged points? I see three there that could have been hafted pretty easily.
No not a coffin, but most certainly a magic box which was like the ones the Egyptians carried around their diety in on festivals.
Mr Wagner.
It's not my responsibility to disprove your fantastical ideas. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” was a phrase made popular by Carl Sagan who reworded Laplace's principle, which says that “the weight of evidence for an extraordinary claim must be proportioned to its strangeness” (Gillispie et al., 1999). So I'd say it's your responsibility to provide the evidence to back up your claims. So please provide the links to the peer reviewed journals that contain the research proving your ideas.
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