1000 years old ... that would place it dating to 1000 AD/Ce [whichever you prefer] And has anybody forgotten the Silk Road, and the issue that people and goods traveled BOTH ways? Perhaps the navigation guide roughly dated to 100 AD/CE that gives rutter type instructions to cross the Indian Ocean to India and other vessels heading eastwards to trade?
Sheesh, it isn't like there was a huge barrier between East and West that was knocked down by the Brits and Portugese in 1500 or anything. *cough* Urumchi *cough*
It is ignorant to claim that there no pre-Hispanic record exists of people with caucasiod features in the region. All one can claim is that they have not yet found such a record.
If the wreck exists and is excavated then perhaps the traditional Columbus history will finally be augmented with new facts and discoveries. Certainly anyone who wanted to know has known for many years that others came before, long before Columbus who never set foot in North America anyway. Great show guys and gals keep it coming!!
After searching the internet for only 10 minutes I've come up many convincing arguments against this theory. Most importantly - "What happens to metal in salt water?"
They write:
“The only explanation for this seemed to be that the image had been formed by a close vertical convection process. Such a transfer would be the only way to produce the image on the Shroud…”
They conjecture the coloration as being from an oxidative image-forming particles rising vertically—fine, let’s accept that for the sake of argument. In the undisturbed air of the tomb and under the shroud, Oxygen singlets rising vertically from the skin, and when they hit the cloth, they steal electrons and then (or later) that shows up as discolored. This effect being dependent upon distance from source to cloth thus explaining that what’s closer would be changed more (nose, eyebrow ridge, chin, and so on.)
They show a schematic of a ‘contact print’ compared to a ‘convection image.’ on page 154.
Note the problem?
In the ‘contact print’ drawing, they correctly show how a ONCE-DRAPED cloth, NOW flattened would distort the face (too wide.)
But in the ‘convection image’ drawing, it’s a bait-and-switch*. They show how rising convections would form an image on an ALREADY –FLAT surface. (*meaning no ill intent, it’s just a short-cut way to put it.)
OK, let’s go back to a cloth draped over a face. Choosing a point near the left or right hair-line, a point meeting the cloth going vertical as opposed to the worst case, horizontal, would only change the distortion of width by a tiny amount. Lay a cloth over a face, take a marker and mark features with the pen horizontal (worst case) now use another colored pen and hold it vertically to mimic the path of vertically rising particles. You might pick up a millimeter or two less distortion if the ‘chemical vapor’ rose vertically. It really is no explanation at all.
Just a side thought: The chemistry of their proposed solution could also create more problems in that it assumes that both skin and hair would proportionately exude these reactive particles. For example, might such a chemical vapor rise through the hair and the image appear without hair?
(I cited the edition because page numbers may be different in different editions--mine is also a hardback.)
Anywho:
They rule out a ‘contact print’ because of the width distortion. Picture of their attempt on pg. 153 and write:
"… and we noted that the face was distorted in its width. … When an image is made by a contact print the cloth goes around the side of the face, and when removed and viewed in a flat plane there is a marked increase in apparent width. The Shroud exhibits no such distortion and so we could be certain that the image could not have been created by either a contact or a radiation process, as both would produce this extra width effect.”
So, what's their proposed solution? See my Part III coming up.
Wow, it's been a long time since I've been able to take some time to sit down and read an article! I'm glad I started with this one. I love the articles that have to do with holidays and celebrations! Our ancestors knew how to have a good time!!! :)
Yes, if we could post pictures that would save time. I have carefully gone over stuff in the book. I'm so glad I did because an old photo dropped out of me with a friend who no longer lives in town.
My edition is: 2000 Barnes & Noble Books. I would have picked it up as soon as I could after publishing.
All text within the book, concerning the image creation is also repeated in consolidated form, in Appendix 3. The Process That Created the Image on the Shroud of Turin. The pictures concerning the issue are helpful on pgs: 153,154. Comments (repeated in Appendix 3 are there and pgs. 158-161 (which is the end of chpt. 7)
I'll do this in two part comments because I've been having problems with posts not posting.
I just want to know how Hutton Pulitzers name keeps being brought up concerning Oak Island ?? He is not the Lead or has any say so whatsoever. Hes not even allowed back on the island. Please help me to digest, what "what paper" essay he is going to provide, when he hasn't even seen the sword himself? This whole story is a big joke...
Prof. Barry Fell, among others, documented finds on Deer Island which suggested an ancient trade route between Europe and N. America. Numerous artifacts have been found over the last three centuries indicating extensive trade and exploration by both european and asian visitors. This is hardly news. The caveat, of course, is the steadfast refusal of traditionalists of history and archaeology to accept pre-Columbian, or diffusionist evidence.
I'm watching the show, it's great. The Brothers Lagina are awesome. However, this "Pulizter" guy was formerly known as Jeffry Jovan Philyaw .. Is a huckster looking to make a buck. I wish the gentlemen well in their Quest for the "Holy Grail?" but what they'll find isn't what they wish it is! I doubt seriously the "Holy Grail" existed at all. The stories of "Jesus" are fabricated to sell an ideal to a herd of people. Unfortunately it caught on and has infiltrated the world to its own demise. Religion is the root of all that ills this planet. The show from 12-15-15 was some dude talking about Montezuma and the Aztec-Mayan treasure. The theories never cease to amaze me. The guy said the "treasure" lay undisturbed since 1540+. It's all a pipe dream, about 8 foot wide and 181 feet deep!
Hello, Abracadabra and frankw.
You've both been misinformed, of course. Spend some time here: http://www.tektonics.org/
and I guarantee it will broaden your outlook. Don't you just love learning new things? No need to thank me.
Merry Christmas!
Here you can navigate quickly through all comments made in any article sorted by date/time.
1000 years old ... that would place it dating to 1000 AD/Ce [whichever you prefer] And has anybody forgotten the Silk Road, and the issue that people and goods traveled BOTH ways? Perhaps the navigation guide roughly dated to 100 AD/CE that gives rutter type instructions to cross the Indian Ocean to India and other vessels heading eastwards to trade?
Sheesh, it isn't like there was a huge barrier between East and West that was knocked down by the Brits and Portugese in 1500 or anything. *cough* Urumchi *cough*
Please ad me to your mailing list.
It is ignorant to claim that there no pre-Hispanic record exists of people with caucasiod features in the region. All one can claim is that they have not yet found such a record.
If the wreck exists and is excavated then perhaps the traditional Columbus history will finally be augmented with new facts and discoveries. Certainly anyone who wanted to know has known for many years that others came before, long before Columbus who never set foot in North America anyway. Great show guys and gals keep it coming!!
Did someone carry out unlicensed XRF inspection or did someone perform the work for you? http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/sites/www.nrcan.gc.ca/files/mineralsmetals/pdf/mm...
What was the rest of the metallic composition?
After searching the internet for only 10 minutes I've come up many convincing arguments against this theory. Most importantly - "What happens to metal in salt water?"
They write:
“The only explanation for this seemed to be that the image had been formed by a close vertical convection process. Such a transfer would be the only way to produce the image on the Shroud…”
They conjecture the coloration as being from an oxidative image-forming particles rising vertically—fine, let’s accept that for the sake of argument. In the undisturbed air of the tomb and under the shroud, Oxygen singlets rising vertically from the skin, and when they hit the cloth, they steal electrons and then (or later) that shows up as discolored. This effect being dependent upon distance from source to cloth thus explaining that what’s closer would be changed more (nose, eyebrow ridge, chin, and so on.)
They show a schematic of a ‘contact print’ compared to a ‘convection image.’ on page 154.
Note the problem?
In the ‘contact print’ drawing, they correctly show how a ONCE-DRAPED cloth, NOW flattened would distort the face (too wide.)
But in the ‘convection image’ drawing, it’s a bait-and-switch*. They show how rising convections would form an image on an ALREADY –FLAT surface. (*meaning no ill intent, it’s just a short-cut way to put it.)
OK, let’s go back to a cloth draped over a face. Choosing a point near the left or right hair-line, a point meeting the cloth going vertical as opposed to the worst case, horizontal, would only change the distortion of width by a tiny amount. Lay a cloth over a face, take a marker and mark features with the pen horizontal (worst case) now use another colored pen and hold it vertically to mimic the path of vertically rising particles. You might pick up a millimeter or two less distortion if the ‘chemical vapor’ rose vertically. It really is no explanation at all.
Just a side thought: The chemistry of their proposed solution could also create more problems in that it assumes that both skin and hair would proportionately exude these reactive particles. For example, might such a chemical vapor rise through the hair and the image appear without hair?
This is so exciting! I love this show!
(I cited the edition because page numbers may be different in different editions--mine is also a hardback.)
Anywho:
They rule out a ‘contact print’ because of the width distortion. Picture of their attempt on pg. 153 and write:
"… and we noted that the face was distorted in its width. … When an image is made by a contact print the cloth goes around the side of the face, and when removed and viewed in a flat plane there is a marked increase in apparent width. The Shroud exhibits no such distortion and so we could be certain that the image could not have been created by either a contact or a radiation process, as both would produce this extra width effect.”
So, what's their proposed solution? See my Part III coming up.
That is actually very intriguing.
But does the time frame, (time of year match up)?
Wow, it's been a long time since I've been able to take some time to sit down and read an article! I'm glad I started with this one. I love the articles that have to do with holidays and celebrations! Our ancestors knew how to have a good time!!! :)
Yes, if we could post pictures that would save time. I have carefully gone over stuff in the book. I'm so glad I did because an old photo dropped out of me with a friend who no longer lives in town.
My edition is: 2000 Barnes & Noble Books. I would have picked it up as soon as I could after publishing.
All text within the book, concerning the image creation is also repeated in consolidated form, in Appendix 3. The Process That Created the Image on the Shroud of Turin. The pictures concerning the issue are helpful on pgs: 153,154. Comments (repeated in Appendix 3 are there and pgs. 158-161 (which is the end of chpt. 7)
I'll do this in two part comments because I've been having problems with posts not posting.
I just want to know how Hutton Pulitzers name keeps being brought up concerning Oak Island ?? He is not the Lead or has any say so whatsoever. Hes not even allowed back on the island. Please help me to digest, what "what paper" essay he is going to provide, when he hasn't even seen the sword himself? This whole story is a big joke...
Prof. Barry Fell, among others, documented finds on Deer Island which suggested an ancient trade route between Europe and N. America. Numerous artifacts have been found over the last three centuries indicating extensive trade and exploration by both european and asian visitors. This is hardly news. The caveat, of course, is the steadfast refusal of traditionalists of history and archaeology to accept pre-Columbian, or diffusionist evidence.
im doubting this. probably something to keep that tv show going another season.
I'm watching the show, it's great. The Brothers Lagina are awesome. However, this "Pulizter" guy was formerly known as Jeffry Jovan Philyaw .. Is a huckster looking to make a buck. I wish the gentlemen well in their Quest for the "Holy Grail?" but what they'll find isn't what they wish it is! I doubt seriously the "Holy Grail" existed at all. The stories of "Jesus" are fabricated to sell an ideal to a herd of people. Unfortunately it caught on and has infiltrated the world to its own demise. Religion is the root of all that ills this planet. The show from 12-15-15 was some dude talking about Montezuma and the Aztec-Mayan treasure. The theories never cease to amaze me. The guy said the "treasure" lay undisturbed since 1540+. It's all a pipe dream, about 8 foot wide and 181 feet deep!
Yes ...because once all these were inhabited by White Races...
Hello, Abracadabra and frankw.
You've both been misinformed, of course. Spend some time here:
http://www.tektonics.org/
and I guarantee it will broaden your outlook. Don't you just love learning new things? No need to thank me.
Merry Christmas!
" known as Greek Fire" Might be white fosforus
"known as vitrum flexile, flexible glass, " Plastics .. and possible to be made by the tech from back then
Does anyone have more information about the Bo? The name "Cave of Fairies" implies little people.
Also, does it take everyone else at least a minute to write a short sentence because of lag on this site?
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