Due to welcome comments questioning the descriptions presented in this article and for clarification, this article was updated on 3-7-2018 with clearer description of the group that is being referred to as Magi, based on cited evidence. The evidence used here defines the ‘Magi’ as one of the six tribes of Media with a distinct set of religious beliefs that the ancient sources describe as having the act of genocide aimed at them. The author believes anything presented as facts in the piece are correct and based on consideration of a variety of sources. Ancient Origins and our authors welcome contributions from our readers and ask that if possible criticisms are specific so that any issues can be addressed and responded to. Thanks for helping us in the tricky search for truth.
David, read this by chance. There were stone basins used in the med at this time (both the Minoans and Sumerians) seemed to use these to study the Sun (and venus), the basin may allow you to look at the Sun through the reflection. I'm not sure, but I think they were trying to work out the size, distances, orbit and so on. Maybe even sun spots.
Priest(ess) where able to gain both income and influence over the populace and those in control by their practice. E.g. When Agamemnon consulted with the Oracle at Delphi, he needed to sacrifice his daughter to wage war on Troy. Hermes is Thoth in Eygpt (associated with Venus), which explains the five-pointed star (orbit around the sun). The ancients don't seem to distinguish between medician and spells (the latter being used to reinforce a treatment that may have had a placebo effect), astronomy and astrology for example. They are one and the same thing at this time, they seem to have both a scientific basis and mystical element. For example, the Delphic Prest(ess) had excellent astronomic knowledge that they could use to influence a Wanax consulting them. Things like being able to predict an eclipse would have been a powerful instrument to confirm their authority. On the fifth day of the month the sun will turn black (outline desired outcome). Both magic or science could have been tools of statecraft, but today it is perhaps not obvious.
It would be interesting to know what the alloy is? Silver for Electrum and source of origin? Metal was used as a form of currency at this time and I note there are likely to be trade links with Iberia and Phoenicia. This doesn't preclude locally panned gold sources, but the impurities may indicate where these items originated, that would be useful to know. The objects are clearly not finely worked as jewellery, the simple loop suggests a simple method of securing to ones person for exchange (that may indicate they were used by a merchant in exchange you locally produced goods or services. The weight of each item could be telling. They seem to be 8mm diameter by 30cms (1 foot), so 15cc (Gold 11.34g/cm3) = 171 grams each. Or 3 mina (3/60 talents or 1/20th) or around 0.38 pound.
Someone that know iron age weights and measures may be able to give better insight, I'm not sure if the celts used talents, it is a system used around the med ?
Has anyone compared it with an ariel map? the cross markings could be a tally or distance markers. reminds me of the rune staves used for recording events, not random markings by children.
A lot of this is actually nanotech. If you consider that the ancients were experimental and scientific you can see how this could have come about. It is not that difficult to make graphene platelets using mechanical milling. E.g if you place graphite from the fire into a leather puch and hit it with a hammer for a day, you will get few layer graphene, it pretty much reinforces anything. Add say 2% by weight to a resin and it improves the modulus by 25% and dramatically improves the propensity for it to fracture. I'm not suggesting they had microscopes to see what was going on at the nanometer scale, they didn't need to, make one what proportion of carbon increases the blades ability to cut. ONce you get the right proportion, you might try to processes it into a finer powder and bingo, you eventually get Damascus steel.
I agree bad, isn't it. I read that the first child was for the gods, e.g. sacrificed to bring good health to the children that followed. A lot of cultures seem to do this, it seems common practice.
We now have a completely different value system. They might have thought this part if the cycles of life, not that we would accept sacrificing children today, but this said, some cultures sacrificing themselves for a cause, they believe they will go to heaven. Maybe they had similar thoughts.
BTW did you have any thoughts on the facing stone idea? If you want to write up let me know and I@ll do some illustrations to support. Oh by the way, I've worked out how they could have bored out these stone vases, it not that difficult, turn them with aggregate in, same way rock tumblers work.
Hi Nick—thank you for your interesting comments. Thanks for mentioning the importance of considering the celestial bodies and their movements. So much knowledge has been lost, and some of it is now being rediscovered. We live in exciting times!
Actually, have you come across any evidence for the ancients deliberately, putting meteorite iron at peaks to create magnetite?
There seem to be some artefacts that imply they were using bowls to reference magnetic north, but the chances of finding magnetite are so rare (and it will lose its magnetism), I just wonder if they placing naturally occurring iron at peaks and tried to magnitise it when lightning struck.
This was not a mask. The holes that were bored into the skull were for a strap so the man could wear this atop their head. They feature this in "A History of Ancient Britain" by Neil Oliver. On that show the experts specifically discount this exact theory.
That's the way to do it! The only way anyone is going to work out this tech, is to have a go at reproducing it. This is interesting. Iron was believed to be first be processed in Crete and Troy around this time, 1200BCE. There was a reason for it, no tin was coming in from Iberia, they needed something to replace bronze. To process Iron you need much higher furnace temp though, forcing air into the coals using bellows. It would be interesting to see what you need to do to get the temp up to process?
Best of luck with the experiment!
Interesting fresco. The chair has similar feet as the Thera tripod chair, https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0e/49/91/fa/an-ancient-t... The Egyptians seem to like the idea of sitting on an animal, as in the master/mistress of animals. All the rulers around this region and period seem to want to convey their mastery of domesticated and wild animals. The quality of the furniture is amazing, it's as fine as Chippendale. Amazing.
Interesting article. A lot of the belief systems can be traced back to very ancient sources. These were initially focused on the celestial bodies. You can see how this evoluted through the astronomical ages. I'm not sure what the level applies too. However, the tree of life is a very old concept indeed. I'm not suggesting they are all the same, rather they evolved from very similar root to better understand the world and its natural cycles. The very early systems are less a religion more a science to better understand those that organise. E.g. the moon drives the tides and months, the Earth orbit the Sun determining the seasons to plant, grow, harvest and store. These then become more sophisticated and do diverge into the religions of the world.
I always thought it interesting that the ancient elements perfectly describe the states of matter for example: Solid (earth), Liquid (Water), Gas (air) and Fire (Plasma). There will have been many genius minds throughout the ages and I suspect some made some truly insightful theories. We often subscribe these to Greek philosophers, however, they may have simply been practitioners of an early school of thought (not to say they didn't articular or invent or discover or develop these ideas).
There is an easy way to determine the way of life of Yorkshire Farmers, speak to them, they haven't changed very much in millennia. Go on their land, they have a tendency to shoot first and ask questions later (stones, arrows or shot, whatever is available).
People consider the potters wheel leading to a wheeled vehicle, but I wonder if a mill for grain came first.
Here you can navigate quickly through all comments made in any article sorted by date/time.
Lovely! I'll take two:)
Due to welcome comments questioning the descriptions presented in this article and for clarification, this article was updated on 3-7-2018 with clearer description of the group that is being referred to as Magi, based on cited evidence. The evidence used here defines the ‘Magi’ as one of the six tribes of Media with a distinct set of religious beliefs that the ancient sources describe as having the act of genocide aimed at them. The author believes anything presented as facts in the piece are correct and based on consideration of a variety of sources. Ancient Origins and our authors welcome contributions from our readers and ask that if possible criticisms are specific so that any issues can be addressed and responded to. Thanks for helping us in the tricky search for truth.
http://www.academia.edu/5606035/Research_on_Rukma_Vimana
David, read this by chance. There were stone basins used in the med at this time (both the Minoans and Sumerians) seemed to use these to study the Sun (and venus), the basin may allow you to look at the Sun through the reflection. I'm not sure, but I think they were trying to work out the size, distances, orbit and so on. Maybe even sun spots.
To call that an Aryan General is incorrect. Assyrians, Babylonians, and Sumerians are Asian even in DNA. We aren’t even that Indo-European.
Priest(ess) where able to gain both income and influence over the populace and those in control by their practice. E.g. When Agamemnon consulted with the Oracle at Delphi, he needed to sacrifice his daughter to wage war on Troy. Hermes is Thoth in Eygpt (associated with Venus), which explains the five-pointed star (orbit around the sun). The ancients don't seem to distinguish between medician and spells (the latter being used to reinforce a treatment that may have had a placebo effect), astronomy and astrology for example. They are one and the same thing at this time, they seem to have both a scientific basis and mystical element. For example, the Delphic Prest(ess) had excellent astronomic knowledge that they could use to influence a Wanax consulting them. Things like being able to predict an eclipse would have been a powerful instrument to confirm their authority. On the fifth day of the month the sun will turn black (outline desired outcome). Both magic or science could have been tools of statecraft, but today it is perhaps not obvious.
It would be interesting to know what the alloy is? Silver for Electrum and source of origin? Metal was used as a form of currency at this time and I note there are likely to be trade links with Iberia and Phoenicia. This doesn't preclude locally panned gold sources, but the impurities may indicate where these items originated, that would be useful to know. The objects are clearly not finely worked as jewellery, the simple loop suggests a simple method of securing to ones person for exchange (that may indicate they were used by a merchant in exchange you locally produced goods or services. The weight of each item could be telling. They seem to be 8mm diameter by 30cms (1 foot), so 15cc (Gold 11.34g/cm3) = 171 grams each. Or 3 mina (3/60 talents or 1/20th) or around 0.38 pound.
Someone that know iron age weights and measures may be able to give better insight, I'm not sure if the celts used talents, it is a system used around the med ?
Has anyone compared it with an ariel map?
the cross markings could be a tally or distance markers.
reminds me of the rune staves used for recording events, not random markings by children.
What makes the difference between sacrifice ans slaughter to a meat eater?
A lot of this is actually nanotech. If you consider that the ancients were experimental and scientific you can see how this could have come about. It is not that difficult to make graphene platelets using mechanical milling. E.g if you place graphite from the fire into a leather puch and hit it with a hammer for a day, you will get few layer graphene, it pretty much reinforces anything. Add say 2% by weight to a resin and it improves the modulus by 25% and dramatically improves the propensity for it to fracture. I'm not suggesting they had microscopes to see what was going on at the nanometer scale, they didn't need to, make one what proportion of carbon increases the blades ability to cut. ONce you get the right proportion, you might try to processes it into a finer powder and bingo, you eventually get Damascus steel.
I agree bad, isn't it. I read that the first child was for the gods, e.g. sacrificed to bring good health to the children that followed. A lot of cultures seem to do this, it seems common practice.
We now have a completely different value system. They might have thought this part if the cycles of life, not that we would accept sacrificing children today, but this said, some cultures sacrificing themselves for a cause, they believe they will go to heaven. Maybe they had similar thoughts.
BTW did you have any thoughts on the facing stone idea? If you want to write up let me know and I@ll do some illustrations to support. Oh by the way, I've worked out how they could have bored out these stone vases, it not that difficult, turn them with aggregate in, same way rock tumblers work.
Hi Nick—thank you for your interesting comments. Thanks for mentioning the importance of considering the celestial bodies and their movements. So much knowledge has been lost, and some of it is now being rediscovered. We live in exciting times!
Actually, have you come across any evidence for the ancients deliberately, putting meteorite iron at peaks to create magnetite?
There seem to be some artefacts that imply they were using bowls to reference magnetic north, but the chances of finding magnetite are so rare (and it will lose its magnetism), I just wonder if they placing naturally occurring iron at peaks and tried to magnitise it when lightning struck.
This was not a mask. The holes that were bored into the skull were for a strap so the man could wear this atop their head. They feature this in "A History of Ancient Britain" by Neil Oliver. On that show the experts specifically discount this exact theory.
That's the way to do it! The only way anyone is going to work out this tech, is to have a go at reproducing it. This is interesting. Iron was believed to be first be processed in Crete and Troy around this time, 1200BCE. There was a reason for it, no tin was coming in from Iberia, they needed something to replace bronze. To process Iron you need much higher furnace temp though, forcing air into the coals using bellows. It would be interesting to see what you need to do to get the temp up to process?
Best of luck with the experiment!
Interesting fresco. The chair has similar feet as the Thera tripod chair, https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0e/49/91/fa/an-ancient-t... The Egyptians seem to like the idea of sitting on an animal, as in the master/mistress of animals. All the rulers around this region and period seem to want to convey their mastery of domesticated and wild animals. The quality of the furniture is amazing, it's as fine as Chippendale. Amazing.
Interesting article. A lot of the belief systems can be traced back to very ancient sources. These were initially focused on the celestial bodies. You can see how this evoluted through the astronomical ages. I'm not sure what the level applies too. However, the tree of life is a very old concept indeed. I'm not suggesting they are all the same, rather they evolved from very similar root to better understand the world and its natural cycles. The very early systems are less a religion more a science to better understand those that organise. E.g. the moon drives the tides and months, the Earth orbit the Sun determining the seasons to plant, grow, harvest and store. These then become more sophisticated and do diverge into the religions of the world.
I always thought it interesting that the ancient elements perfectly describe the states of matter for example: Solid (earth), Liquid (Water), Gas (air) and Fire (Plasma). There will have been many genius minds throughout the ages and I suspect some made some truly insightful theories. We often subscribe these to Greek philosophers, however, they may have simply been practitioners of an early school of thought (not to say they didn't articular or invent or discover or develop these ideas).
Opps, misposted, I thought I was posting to the article about yorkshire neolithic farmers!
A very interesting and equally well-written article, thank you!
There is an easy way to determine the way of life of Yorkshire Farmers, speak to them, they haven't changed very much in millennia. Go on their land, they have a tendency to shoot first and ask questions later (stones, arrows or shot, whatever is available).
People consider the potters wheel leading to a wheeled vehicle, but I wonder if a mill for grain came first.
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