None of the writers you mention were writing first hand accounts and all have serious doubts about the authenticity and validity of their writings strong enough to discount them as reliable evidence. In fact there are no first hand accounts, outside of the bible, until 60 years after the events when there really ought to be. None of the historians, law makers, or anyone else has a single word to say at the time when he was supposed to be doing his amazing works. Isn't that odd?
Since you like suggesting further reading so much, I'll do likewise: I suggest you read ‘10 beautiful lies' by David Fitzgerald ;)
Yep I don’t agree this shroud has anything to do with Jesus. On the subject of Jesus, I have my opinions on the figure’s existence based on texts outside religious works. Roman Historian Tacitus wrote in 116 CE of the Christ’s existence and ‘execution’, Josephus refers to the ‘brother of Jesus’ in 62CE, then in 115CE Lucian of Samosata’s references to the Christ are many but don’t reflect the figure many know as the Jesus from religious texts. My point is that the historical figure appears to have existed, just not in the sense that many devout believers would have him so. A great read on the subject of Jesus and certainly different view of what many believe him to have been, can be found in John Lamb Lash’s book ‘Not In His Image’, which draws evidence from both the Nag Hammadi Library and Dead Sea Scroll Library.
With all due respect to your beliefs, you are no better than the atheist here who purports the shroud to be fake – purely because you believe it’s origin doesn’t lie with Jesus and with no shred of evidence of your own. You lot really need to seek truth in matters such as these. The shroud has been carbon dated to between 1300 and 1400 and the technique used to cover a crucified body is well documented at the time. Do try get your hands on The Second Messiah by Robert Lomas and Christopher Knight. ‘Crucified’ you ask? You should know that crucifixions and other similar body hangings and stakings were mighty prevalent during the period right through the middle ages, and especially reserved for those who went against the Church. Don’t be fooled into thinking the historical figure of Jesus and ‘the other two’ were the only ones.
Something tells me you’ve not even gone to the trouble to test your method! And whether it works or not! Again, I implore you to investigate the work Lomas and Knight did around the subject of the shroud.
Exactly what have you studied about the cloth to lead you to your conclusion or is it just an assumption based on your limited shroud knowledge? I challenge you to read all the literature about the shroud – not only what appears on this site, and certainly not what appears on debunk sites. There are many lines of enquiry you have not bothered to investigate. Start with Robert Lomas and Christopher Knight’s work for one.
I traveled with the Rainbow Family for many years,
and while some Rainbows,
or what we call Drainbows,
harm the earth,
pollute the rivers
and poisoned the air with their words,
many of use Rainbow Children seek to connect with the earth
swim in the rivers
eat the berries
and dance
laugh
tell stories
and drum around fires.
Through these experiences I learned of nature's joy
and the responsibility of nurturing all our relations.
Some of us believe we are a modern embodiment of these myths,
I myself am one of them.
We keep looking to these myths and waiting for them to come:
they have come,
we are they.
You're brainwashed by your malaysian government to believe that North Borneo issue has been resolved. But it was not. Remember that Manila Accord reserve the issue to be resolved peacefully. Hence, malaysia is not the owner of North Borneo.
Maybe lighter-than-air flight rather than heavier-than-air flight? A hot-air balloon, anchored to the ground with a long rope to keep it from drifting away, would do the trick.
Or perhaps no mechanism was needed, because some form of astral projection was used....?
From what little information I could find, those steppes in Kazakhstan are arid and inhospitable and have been since before the onset of the last ice age. Can't grow crops there. Can't live off the wildlife either as there isn't much to speak of.
So it seems likely that whoever constructed these structures would have had to bring food and water with them.
What would be the purpose for an agricultural civilization to build all these in a place they couldn't live?
In modern times we build complex structures in inhospitable places, but it's always for science.
As a lefty, I’m very interested int he subject of written languages that are L-R vs R-L. Possibility that some of the ancient R-L languages developed by societies with higher % of left handed population?
"are you assuming that because he’s taken a stab at atheist or materialist scientific establishment that he believes the shroud has messianic origins?"
Yes. I don't feel I am reading into that. Why don't you ask him what he meant to clear things up though?
It is not an 'image" of anyone. Well, not unless the "image" was transferred while the cloth was held perfectly flat which is absurd. Not arguing the existence of Jesus or the historical facts about Jesus or De Moley. This cloth...THIS cloth, is immediately recognizable as a crude fake. Get over it.
Hi Peter. Search for the names “Jacques Cartier" on this site. I wrote an article about a supposed Viking city of gold in Canada that Indians mentioned to Cartier in the 16th century.
I think even more wonderful is the communication between ancient civilisations on a global scale. It is understood that the simple as above, so below notion goes, it was considered the connection between the Celestial and the World. An alignment globally connect the zodiac to major ancient sites, anatomically; the head Easter Island, the neck Chaco canyon, Stonehenge- Cancer, Leo the lungs-the sphinx, Virgo the Virgin Mary, the scales- Buddha region.... they all match a global body connecting to the Celestial body. Global communication.
There are too many common features over too many land masses for this phenomena to be just cultural. Let's not forget ALL the isolated areas history of why the act of head binding was done: it was to emulate the GODS! Main stream close minded experts fail to include this in their attempts to justify their findings. History cannot be discounted as fable or lore, especially when it's so very similar from other cultures many thousands of miles away. Elongated heads, larger brain capacity, enhanced eye socket volume, distinctly different jaw and missing crania sutures are just too many differences to categorize these skulls as "head bound" anomalies. The truth is in the history, which I am sure through time many have tried to destroy. Are we not to believe the bible? Even it speaks of a different race of giants that the Hebrews set out to destroy. Was this race of people also purposely destroyed also?
Greg Akrey
As I'm sure you well know, the Koran leans heavily on the bible. Maybe I should have said “outside of religious texts”
Please read up on what ‘theory' means in science, it's not the same as in everyday language. I was merely using that quote and those points to illustrate Philips religiosity and apparent belief in the shroud of Jesus.
I'm here because, like you I'm sure, I'm fascinated by history and especially pre history. I think there's more to it than what we are taught to believe.
"We” as in widespread and general knowing. The fact that there is still debate, e.g. here, proves that that.
The last point... finally we agree on something ;)
Here you can navigate quickly through all comments made in any article sorted by date/time.
None of the writers you mention were writing first hand accounts and all have serious doubts about the authenticity and validity of their writings strong enough to discount them as reliable evidence. In fact there are no first hand accounts, outside of the bible, until 60 years after the events when there really ought to be. None of the historians, law makers, or anyone else has a single word to say at the time when he was supposed to be doing his amazing works. Isn't that odd?
Since you like suggesting further reading so much, I'll do likewise: I suggest you read ‘10 beautiful lies' by David Fitzgerald ;)
Yep I don’t agree this shroud has anything to do with Jesus. On the subject of Jesus, I have my opinions on the figure’s existence based on texts outside religious works. Roman Historian Tacitus wrote in 116 CE of the Christ’s existence and ‘execution’, Josephus refers to the ‘brother of Jesus’ in 62CE, then in 115CE Lucian of Samosata’s references to the Christ are many but don’t reflect the figure many know as the Jesus from religious texts. My point is that the historical figure appears to have existed, just not in the sense that many devout believers would have him so. A great read on the subject of Jesus and certainly different view of what many believe him to have been, can be found in John Lamb Lash’s book ‘Not In His Image’, which draws evidence from both the Nag Hammadi Library and Dead Sea Scroll Library.
With all due respect to your beliefs, you are no better than the atheist here who purports the shroud to be fake – purely because you believe it’s origin doesn’t lie with Jesus and with no shred of evidence of your own. You lot really need to seek truth in matters such as these. The shroud has been carbon dated to between 1300 and 1400 and the technique used to cover a crucified body is well documented at the time. Do try get your hands on The Second Messiah by Robert Lomas and Christopher Knight. ‘Crucified’ you ask? You should know that crucifixions and other similar body hangings and stakings were mighty prevalent during the period right through the middle ages, and especially reserved for those who went against the Church. Don’t be fooled into thinking the historical figure of Jesus and ‘the other two’ were the only ones.
Something tells me you’ve not even gone to the trouble to test your method! And whether it works or not! Again, I implore you to investigate the work Lomas and Knight did around the subject of the shroud.
Exactly what have you studied about the cloth to lead you to your conclusion or is it just an assumption based on your limited shroud knowledge? I challenge you to read all the literature about the shroud – not only what appears on this site, and certainly not what appears on debunk sites. There are many lines of enquiry you have not bothered to investigate. Start with Robert Lomas and Christopher Knight’s work for one.
Blessings and thank you.
I traveled with the Rainbow Family for many years,
and while some Rainbows,
or what we call Drainbows,
harm the earth,
pollute the rivers
and poisoned the air with their words,
many of use Rainbow Children seek to connect with the earth
swim in the rivers
eat the berries
and dance
laugh
tell stories
and drum around fires.
Through these experiences I learned of nature's joy
and the responsibility of nurturing all our relations.
Some of us believe we are a modern embodiment of these myths,
I myself am one of them.
We keep looking to these myths and waiting for them to come:
they have come,
we are they.
May we continuously grow and become 1 2-gether.
Blessings Be...
You're brainwashed by your malaysian government to believe that North Borneo issue has been resolved. But it was not. Remember that Manila Accord reserve the issue to be resolved peacefully. Hence, malaysia is not the owner of North Borneo.
As a Christian and firm believer in Jesus Christ, I think the shroud is a fake. Jesus would never wear his hair long as the person depicted does.
1 Corinthians 11:14: Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
Sounds like it was a lot of fun. I'd love to go on one of these expeditions.
Maybe lighter-than-air flight rather than heavier-than-air flight? A hot-air balloon, anchored to the ground with a long rope to keep it from drifting away, would do the trick.
Or perhaps no mechanism was needed, because some form of astral projection was used....?
From what little information I could find, those steppes in Kazakhstan are arid and inhospitable and have been since before the onset of the last ice age. Can't grow crops there. Can't live off the wildlife either as there isn't much to speak of.
So it seems likely that whoever constructed these structures would have had to bring food and water with them.
What would be the purpose for an agricultural civilization to build all these in a place they couldn't live?
In modern times we build complex structures in inhospitable places, but it's always for science.
As a lefty, I’m very interested int he subject of written languages that are L-R vs R-L. Possibility that some of the ancient R-L languages developed by societies with higher % of left handed population?
"are you assuming that because he’s taken a stab at atheist or materialist scientific establishment that he believes the shroud has messianic origins?"
Yes. I don't feel I am reading into that. Why don't you ask him what he meant to clear things up though?
It is not an 'image" of anyone. Well, not unless the "image" was transferred while the cloth was held perfectly flat which is absurd. Not arguing the existence of Jesus or the historical facts about Jesus or De Moley. This cloth...THIS cloth, is immediately recognizable as a crude fake. Get over it.
Hi Peter. Search for the names “Jacques Cartier" on this site. I wrote an article about a supposed Viking city of gold in Canada that Indians mentioned to Cartier in the 16th century.
Mark Miller
Hi Zeek. I submitted the question to the researcher about what the rest of it said, but he didn’t answer.
Mark Miller
I think even more wonderful is the communication between ancient civilisations on a global scale. It is understood that the simple as above, so below notion goes, it was considered the connection between the Celestial and the World. An alignment globally connect the zodiac to major ancient sites, anatomically; the head Easter Island, the neck Chaco canyon, Stonehenge- Cancer, Leo the lungs-the sphinx, Virgo the Virgin Mary, the scales- Buddha region.... they all match a global body connecting to the Celestial body. Global communication.
There are too many common features over too many land masses for this phenomena to be just cultural. Let's not forget ALL the isolated areas history of why the act of head binding was done: it was to emulate the GODS! Main stream close minded experts fail to include this in their attempts to justify their findings. History cannot be discounted as fable or lore, especially when it's so very similar from other cultures many thousands of miles away. Elongated heads, larger brain capacity, enhanced eye socket volume, distinctly different jaw and missing crania sutures are just too many differences to categorize these skulls as "head bound" anomalies. The truth is in the history, which I am sure through time many have tried to destroy. Are we not to believe the bible? Even it speaks of a different race of giants that the Hebrews set out to destroy. Was this race of people also purposely destroyed also?
Greg Akrey
Maybe I will, but its going to have to be a good explanation ;)
As I'm sure you well know, the Koran leans heavily on the bible. Maybe I should have said “outside of religious texts”
Please read up on what ‘theory' means in science, it's not the same as in everyday language. I was merely using that quote and those points to illustrate Philips religiosity and apparent belief in the shroud of Jesus.
I'm here because, like you I'm sure, I'm fascinated by history and especially pre history. I think there's more to it than what we are taught to believe.
"We” as in widespread and general knowing. The fact that there is still debate, e.g. here, proves that that.
The last point... finally we agree on something ;)
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