is there any sign found in ancient maya of the wheel used ? idea must have traveled and remained popular following man all over as he moved, evolved grew and developed construction. especially of such great weights. it seem the egyptians and the chinese had it best constructed with their chariots, just an ancient cart would not have to have such a more precise balance since speed was not the game, just transport of goods, family, the wounded and the smaller constructions. It also seems strange why ancient man may have Not used the horse, camel or ox so as to help drag/haul heavy things for them/with them. where is first evidence of that ???
The most compelling reason why the matter of Bob Heironimous and Phillip Morris was not noted is that in the two critical texts cited “Daegling’s “Bigfoot Exposed” and Loxton and Prothero’s “Abominable Science”, both of these clearly skeptical texts did not recognize Bob Heironimous and Phillip Morris as presenting claims of sufficient merit to be factored into those author’s analysis. Even though all authors were aware of the claims, they did not use the claims to establish a proof of hoax. So if skeptical authors and researchers cannot be confident the Heironimous and Morris are making truthful and reliable claims, then I felt that any mention of them would have required a lengthy disclosure of the issues which cast doubt on their credibility. If one were to advocate those claims by Heironimous and Morris as being truthful and factual, the claims would need to be analyzed with the same discipline and logic as all other evidence should be, and under that kind of analysis, the claims have not proven to be strong enough to be taken as fact, even by many skeptical analysists.
That photo showing the burial dig, what is that at bottom right ? a round hole, that a drain tube ? it is hard to see just what I am looking at of whole picture. also that ring with the gem on top, i have one exactly like it just my stone is smaller and, i made it myself :)
Incredible :) Love ancient ruins, But do wonder if apollo's already ancient temple was intact for Paul to see it whole..? any proof ? yet the romans would want it kept intact ? since they never lost faith in the sun to do what it did, still does today :) I guess apollo was an alien, as depicted in ST episode 'who mourns for Adonius'. it is also a wonder where Paul is buried and how he would be marked to show it is him..?
just, what if those, aliens, decided to return ? hmmm
Is there anything unique in her "collection" that is not readily available for study in other museums? If not, she has doesn't really have things of any great value to the archaeological community. If she does have unusual findings, perhaps she would like to donate those to an institute for further study. The descriptions of her artifacts seem rather uncommon, so chill out on this dear lady's gatherings.
I imagine most would believe that the statements of:
Philip Morris, the man that sold the suit to Patterson
and
Bob Heironimus, the man that wore the suit
provide that kind of proof.
My question would be why was that not addressed in your article?
Where's fantastic treasures are to be found, no matter the risks or potential threats to life and limb, humans will go to every length to find and recover them. Case in point is the OAK ISLAND fiasco airing on the History Channel. Millions of dollars have been spent digging, drilling, diving, metal detecting, researching, theorizng, wondering, where the supposed Pirate, Buckineer,Templar, gold hoard treasure is.So far they very little to show for their efforts.
The fictional character Lady Lara Croft is called a Tomb Raider, of sorts , following in her Archaeologist fathers footsteps. She's a British Goverment SPY, DIPLOMAT, Aventuress, Archaeologist and seeker of rare artifacts that have powerful supernatural powers. Her mission is to locate these first before some rougue agencies out for world domination can get their hands on them. She'll slip into some archaeological dig - and steal what they are looking for. Which is actually common practice around the world if a site isn't guarded and protected around the clock...
Indiana Jones is the male version of Lara Croft - only he is a college proffessor teaching Archaeoological History... and he too is a Diplomat of the College, Government Agent, Aventurer, Treasure Seeker, Tomb Raider, and a rougue with the ladies. Jones has found the The Arc of the Covenant and experienced first hand the Wrath of God and survived! Top that Lara!
Thrilling stuff for Movies. Also bad for actual Archaeologist who have submit for foreign Government Permits telling what it is they are hoping to find, wait for permission, gather the Professional Phd degreed Professorial Achaeologist, Student helpers, Equipment and Supplies,Arrange Travel, and get all the other professional individuals from the hosting nation to monitor their activities. That is a far cry from Tomb Raiding! Of course, if the team discovers something wonderful and it has never been seen before - Great Acolades , Fame and rise in ranks of Archaeology is assured.
This is a completely crazy period. The Minoan empire had collapsed that stifled piracy, goods flowed, it all stopped with the thera erruption, the Mycaneans invaded, there was a global food crisis, every culture was clamping for anything they could get (the Sea Peoples raided any port to get anything of wealth). The Myceaneans knew very little about long-distance trade and logistics, sorry they didn't. The Phoenician did that learned this from Minoans and eventually resumed trade after the passage of the sea peoples. Mercenaries were contracted in to fight for the invader or the defender, the whole of lands around the med was at war, scrambling around for any metal they could take because the trade network and supply of tin had collapsed, that drove the Bronze age economy, in the same way as Oil drove the 20 century economy.
Is the author referring to the British Museum of TODAY or one of a century ago. I think if you look at all States at this time they all peddled their own propaganda.
The British Museum of today is extremely respectful of other cultures and does a fantastic job of preserving these treasured items, it is also balanced in its approach it frequently loans artefacts to Museums in the country of origin. Also, bear in mind that a lot of people visit London from all around the world, it is an excellent way to share in human achievement with everyone, it is entirely open, there isn't even a fee to visit any British public Museums, it could not be more open and exclusive.
If anything the British Museum doesn't impose their expertise and insight when description artefacts enough, it so factual and politically correct. You are referring to long gone days of empire. We as accept this, it is part of our historical culture but assuming we still think this way today is entirely incorrect, we welcome the diversity of the world and wish to enjoy it. A Brit.
This is pagan thought practised by Druids in Britain. They didn't write anything down!
However, their practices do oddly seem to have parallels with other cultures around the med. This makes a little more sense in this context. They had Apollo (the spear of light at summer solstice), I guess this is your green man. They also had a mother goddess (winter solstice). A fertility goddess (Aphrodite - birth of the day, east - spring equinox of equal day and night) and a goddess of the underworld/night (Artemis-mistress of animals - virgin, Athene type - representing night and autumn equinox - equal day and night).
It's a clever unified system as you can use these to represent cardinal direction, Seasons, day and night and length of the same, all together. Apollo south, mid-day (brightest light) and zenith at summer solstice. Mother goddess North, winter equinox shortest day. BTW this is also the main axis, the serpents refer to the Star constellations of Draco used to find the pole star and the serpent on the equator plane. Collectively, it all made sense.
April, not likely. The Egyptians had very little experience of sea navigation. The Minoans did, the Phoenicians did. Both traded with Egypt. Egyptian knowledge of Minoans was very limited, the Kaftui visited them to trade goods, they were known as coming from the islands they didn't have a clue where they were, it was an asymmetrical sea trade. The Minoan trade network was vast, it extended at least to Spain, but probably to Britanny/Britain for tin, that they needed to make bronze. Egyptian expeditions went anticlockwise around the med with the natural currents (you gain about 2 knots speed if you do, being in mind that under oar you can only go about 4-5 knots and losing 2knots if you have to row against a current is a big deal), across the pillars of Hercules to Africa along this coast then on the Egypt, up to Phoenician ports, then cypress and back to Crete. You pick up all this stuff on route.
I seem to remember reading that the land of punt was Madagascer, this would have been from the spanish port around the african coast, any trade goods could then be made available to other ports in the med through this node.
The one eye could be referring to workers of founderies of metal. They would wear a leather protective eye patch so if there was an accident, they did lose sight in the other eye. They were associated with building, there are even types recorded, copier (mould maker for last wax casting) , metalworker and woodworker, that could also produce what was needed to support building projects Its a class of skilled workers. Look at all the sources of the myth, Crete, Cyprus (copper), Malta (way port for Spainish tin). They are all part of the Minoan trade network, that specialised in metal work amongst other arts and engineering.
To those who have commented thus far, I thank you for your thoughts. But if this film is a hoax, I would like to see a proof, based on an examination of the eveidence, (actually described correctly) the method of analysis used, and the exact conclusion derived from that specific evidence. Also, I’d like to have the author of that proof give his/her name, credentials,etc.
I don’t think that’s too much to ask, but I’ve been waiting 50 years to read that proof, and so far, it doesn’t exist. So I question why.
Enjoyed reading this article. Info on feasibility:
1. Construction: a hand glider could have been built with materials and construction methods known at this time, within twice the all up weight of a modern-day hand glider (e.g. technical viable).
Icarus is credited with inventing the sail. Flax linen was imported from Egypt by Minos/Crete, they had the best spinners and weavers in the world and exported fine cloth (take a look at the quality and complexity of lady’s fashion garments). Early 20th century aircraft used aero-linen, it has a similar tensile strength to weight ratio as e-glass used in composites, today.
A linen sailcloth could be protected from seawater using wax to improve longevity and performance, that may be the underlying story.
If I had to build a glider from natural materials only, I'd use thick bamboo as tubing for a simple delta wing airframe with aero linen skin, a pilot shifting their weight for control authority, keep it simple.
Giant reeds (similar to bamboo) grow around the Med, used for flute making from 3000 BCE. Bundles of intertwined wicker (used in Minoan/Carian figure of eight shields) would also work. Natural materials are excellent and light.
By example Minoan furniture construction was as good as Chippendale with similarly exacting joinery (Thira tripod table, Egyptian folding beds accredited to Daedalus), that may have employed steaming for shaping (steam rooms in Palaces of Minoan construction recorded in the literature, they may have been used for pleasure and possible for a practical purpose also to shape wood). Constructing water-tight ship hulls with reinforced stitching and pitch (reduced tar from tree sap resin) known. They had all the technical skills and materials to hand to build a basic very lightweight hand glider from natural materials. The question is did they have a design?
2. Design: a) consider Sir George Cayley governable parachute, undertook from a standing start. He got most things right from educated guesses (1802 design) and in later life re-engaging with the topic and demonstrating the idea in practice, steady level flight (in this case). Cayley was wealthy, but did not have access to Minoan Palace workshops or yards! By pursuing this goal he also reinvents the wheel to keep weight down, the spoke tension wheel from twine. To demonstrate gliding flight you don’t need something this sophisticated: spoked wheels, gondola, tail stabilisers/control surfaces and all ! Minoan craftspeople could have built this airframe easily incidentally. The chambered (lifting) wing is apparent if you try to drape a taught cloth over a frame and apply an angle of attack (through weight shift) increasing lift (more distance forwards with a reduced sink rate) at lose of airspeed, you find an equilibrium. You do not need a sophisticated design for basic flight. Gliding is the art of balance, weight shift gives control. It is how all the early pioneers achieved control in flight.
b) You don’t go from an idea to flight straight away, you build models and see what works out in practice. As McCready said, ‘there is nothing wrong with models’. You can build them quickly and show it to a war chief. Support is offered from the State if it works or is interesting, once you have a viable flight concept or design IN-HAND, take my word for it.
If you look there are working examples of a fixed-wing gliders based upon the bird found in Egyptian tombs. Whatever your model demonstrates you can then consider scaling it up, the unknown, and risk your life and limb! You don’t jump off a cliff straight away! You start on the side of a gentle hill, a little glide, tweak. Once you gain confidence, you then undertake longer runs from ever increased gradients, you learn basic control of the aircraft. What would be unexpected is taking off into the sun, you enjoy both lea lift (wind rolling over the peak/hill) and rising columns of air (thermals)!
c). Oral and written accounts.
i) Chinese: Basic planforms for flight surfaces possibly described, known to the adepts, suggest an awareness of landscape from altitude and long distance travel by gliding flight.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo-copter
Later attempts by the state to reproduce this are not much more than the forced attachment of prisons to Kites (execution).
ii) Abbas ibn Firnas, Moorish Polymath from Spain, C. 850 AD. Oral accounts: controlled flight on the second attempt.
iii) Elmer of Malmesbury - the flying monk, ‘Lightening' shot from Dyson design centre. Picking up the original story, the stained glass window would suggest a bat like wing design. In any event, one in three ‘sink ratio’: poor. I don’t think the abbot had much to do with curtailing the technical demonstration. Further, the pilot reports tail control needed after jumping off the abbey tower, result: broken legs, useful experience and historical flight data; from eyewitnesses accounts, the glide distance a furlong, the tower height known.
My interpretation is that an unsupported wing was employed, bad idea! A dihedral ‘v’ wing from front elevation will quickly follow, the arm cannot easily support the wing loading (half your weight on each arm outstretched, for much beyond a minute). A fixed wing is needed, building an unsupported wing mounted to arms will quickly show that this is unlikely to yield good results. There will be a need to sweep back your wings to balance your weight upon air also (tail stabilisers recorded, as being required for this configuration). You quickly understand flight when you see what happens in practice, best to start with models until you do.
Elmer was inspired by the historical literature that attempted to understand the account of Daedalus. It relied upon the ancient oral account passed sown over many generations and getting more hazy with each, a lack of understanding of flight physics and the artists interpretation of the event, basically; birds have wings and fly, therefore Daedalus and Icarus must have used feathered wings to fly. Question: did a Minoan ship look like a whale to move bulks or precious things over the ocean? They used the bits they needed: a hull, human-powered oars/paddles to go places rather than a flipper.
3 Human Powered Flight. Bird muscle around the wing (75%), leg muscles weak even for hunting birds, like Owls (use locking talons to grip pray), eagles or hawks. Human strength is in the leg. Leonardo did show this in initial designs, reporting limited flight success upon the lake, pilot (one of his entourage) injured. An Olympic cyclist produces around 350 watts of work (basically the power of a battery powered drill). When you consider this must lift the airframe and body weight before making progress forward, humans by themselves are not going to get places quickly in flight under their own power, the surplus power forwards after lifting weight is walking speed (you need a tail wind if you want to go faster). McCready son peddled hard to get across the channel.
4. Daedalus flight comments. A) could be referring to the sail. B) Some accounts say flight northeast, not west over huge 500km+ distances over the sea, the later only viable by sail in my opinion. A glider is reliant upon thermals to obtain altitude, from a sun lite hillside. There are not any significant thermals at sea, it is substantially flat. Before anyone comments, you do get some lea lift from wind waves derived from land mass. The glide ratio for a modern-day sailplane is around 60:1 (horizontal distance traversed to sink rate), for a basic trainer glider 30:1 and these are good aerodynamic airframes with high aspect ratio wings. I’m guessing but for a hand glider maybe 10.1. The nearest island north of Crete is 100kms away. You need 10kms of altitude to go anywhere in still winds (at this altitude you need oxygen, did Icarus become unconscious). For an experimental airframe, it is more likely the pilot lost control, for example, the aircraft going nose down and could not be recovered by weight shift (you need to keep weight as low as possible for a design that will natural recover when buffeted). There are smaller islands 25-40kms to east or west of Crete that could be used for island hopping, realising altitude before gliding to the next (2.5 - 4 kms altitude is manageable without oxygen). Tailwinds could be used to go further. It is also worth noting where Icarus had a mishap, Ikaria, they could have been heading for Troy! If Daedalus and Icarus wanted to travel, Minos would not want to lose two of the Palaces master craftsman to a trading rival and may explain the context of the story. Also, wind direction in the Cyclades is very sessional, it should be possible to approximate the month/season then they attempted long distance flight.
5. Daedalus could be a position in society, there are simply too many inventions, art and engineering projects for a single person to complete in a lifetime and in the case of Palaces built on the mainland and art at completely different times. Also consider that an object crafted by the master was worth much more than one that was not. The consistent quality of Minoan artefacts and understanding of science and practical engineering suggests a learned society or at least an apprentice programme in Palace workshops, more probably both.
Notes: as is emerging, Minos had the basic building blocks in place that were accredited to Greece, Roman and British empire millennium later (science, technology, engineering, art and mathematics) but at a lower manufacturing readiness/widespread adoption, but in other respects were arguably better. By example: Communal sewers, hot and cold running water to buildings, hypocaust, aqueducts, roads, instruments of contract/global exchange/trade, central banking and a planned economy, MINT quality engraving, moveable type, architecture that managed light, air, heat and fluids, etc, all demonstrated, C.2000BCE. The state of the ART, all the best ideas and commodities moved through their trading network: trigonometry/geometry/mathematics, metrology, astronomy, metallurgy (the money of it’s time) and construction materials that they converted into high-value trade goods, anything that came on their radar that was of interest, they sent an embassy/ship to investigate and secure knowledge and supply. In many respects, the Minoan empire was comparable to the technical achievements of Britain in 1800 AD when Cayley came up with the idea! This society was also top of its game in every respect. Oddly Minoan DNA has British DNA origin, you can’t produce bronze without tin which we had in abundance.
Minoans had the technical skill to build a basic glider and importantly an inquisitive mindset. Anyone that can work out how to thread a shell using an ant and honey (genius) would be able to build a basic aircraft. Not sure? Well I have no formal training in aerodynamics and have built and demonstrated a new class of aircraft. I did the same thing, ask the warchief for the resource and you can get it up in the air, this would take about 3 years to build from a standing start possible less if you had unfettered access to Palace workshops. My gut feeling is they build it, how successful it was is anyone’s guess, a leg from Crete to Thera is tricky, you’d need a good tailwind, I’d go East first! Someone could have a go…. It would be a great prize challenge for the Royal Aeronautical Society (RAeS) human flight group to issue! Crete to Troy using natural materials available to the Minoans. Then we’d know…. My money is with the aircraft builders.
The administrators of the site have my permission to post this as an article if they have the inclination, just credit the source.
PS The winged feet reference may be referring to stabilisers the flying monk needed. Thinking a little more about this, it suggests a more complex design and I would go with a fixed elliptical (in plan) wing made from wicker, technically a good shape and easy to make. I’d create a X support (in plan view) below for the pilot, mounting to the leading to trailing edge of the wing, U in side or front view. All the rigid frame structures I’d use wicker (forgiving on ground impact – used in balloons baskets that have to absorb a lot of impact energy). An aero linen skin over the wings, that I’d staple stitch at the leading and trailing edges of the wicker frame. Incidentally, this is exactly how they constructed lightweight full body length shields! They will have studied bird wings and noted they were chambered, a few hand launch models and you have a good profile, a basic lifting aerofoil. Wicker chambered rib bracers could be employed from leading to trailing edge of the wing without adding much weight – you’ve already got a better airframe than Cayley, easier to construct too! The wing needs to be pretty big, without doing the calculations, I’d hazard a guess of 1.2m chord length by 6m span. You could use a strap from the trailing edge of the wing to support the pilot at their waist/possibly upper leg, they move about the X frame, the Centre of gravity is directly below the wing which is exactly where you want it. At this size you’d need to extend the mounting position of tail stabilisers backwards beyond the foot. Your article suggests to me they used paddles extended beyond the foot, a wooden pole strapped to the leg with a wicker loop either side of each foot and skinned in linen (flat plate). This configuration is good as you can use both weight shift with foot paddles as control surfaces (actually just like a bird). I’d upgrade the minimum glide angle to 20:1 for this configuration possible more if you increased the wingspan. This configuration doesn’t allow you to run down a hill for launch, you’d probably need a ground crew or a wheeled trolley (lots of examples of this in Minoan artefacts, it is no more complex than a kids cart and rolls down the hill to give you speed to lift into the air). Skid landing would be a bit hairy, the wicker would held but I’d ditch in the sea near to a beach. BTW Leonardo did leave some notes that suggested he build a glider and launched it from a hill, ditching on a lake. He also produced hand launch models of the helicopter, aerial screw, seen over the Vatican wall when he was completing a commission, the section at the bottom of the drawing is the release mechanism it was copied from Chinese bamboo spinner blade toys.
The wicker is definitely the best option, you need something resilient when undertaking initial airwork or this will take you much longer to develop experimentally, having to rebuild wings would set you back a month or two. Someone needs to give this a try.
Also, the association between Priestess and axe and square is interesting. Axes are long distance signalling devices and angular measurement tools (the smaller ones used for navigation). The square is associated with architects as in [System] Architect (builder). The priestess were keepers of knowledge (mostly astronomy, practitioners of Pythagorean mathematics to predict the position of celestial bodies and stars, the axe gives you accurate positioning of the sun from the shadow and reflection without having to look directly into the sun) possibly teachers. They worked at peak sanctuaries, studying the stars at night and I suspect monitoring the shipping lanes in the day (which they had a commanding view over, there are peak sanctuaries at west, east and central Crete, there is line of sight between them and across the entire island – around 100kms to the horizon for monitoring coast approaches too), they could use the big axe mirrors to signal the fleet to intercept ships of the wrong sail/colour and secure their cargo (they completely dominated trade in the region). Sorry for long post, but your article is thought-provoking and this is an interesting topic, well written too. It now makes much more sense why the messengers like Hermes had winged feet (stabilisers: a Minoan state secret?). The priestesses had line of sight to other peak sanctuaries on other islands – huge distances (there is also iconography showing runners actually running down hills to delivering messages to administration centres – Palaces, actually there are even symbols in the Cretan Hieroglyphics for this), it’s a patchy network, you don’t have line of sight to all islands and this is limited to only some islands in the Cyclades group, the trade network is much bigger and if you want to send messages the glider described is much faster than a ship (about 10 times so, possible more with a good tail wind)! This might explain the iconography you describe. You would not want this technology to get in to the hands of a competitor, it would be a state secret but you could not stop others from observing this in flight and once they did it is such a huge thing it is no surprise that it was passed down in oral history. It does explain why Minos did not want Daedalus going to Troy.
The article states that water clocks had to be adjusted as the length of the day changed. Since Modern time keeping ignores the length of the day, doesn't that imply that in ancient times the length of an hour varied throughout the year so there would always be 12 hours (or 12 parts) of day light and 12 hours of night?
I don’t think the Cyclops were Canaanites though there is the possibility that they were Nephilim (descendants of fallen angels and humans). I read the Bible daily but there is much that was left out, probably because what they were talking about was common knowledge that is now lost. Hopefully, more research will be done and more facts come to light
This is amazing yet so sad. I hope they are able to preserve their way of life. I am sure there are people in the world somewhere who would love the opportunity to study with a shaman! Perhaps they could recruit from the outside :)
This makes me think of all the vast knowledge that has been lost already due to men killing off, conquering, or influencing whole cultures.
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is there any sign found in ancient maya of the wheel used ? idea must have traveled and remained popular following man all over as he moved, evolved grew and developed construction. especially of such great weights. it seem the egyptians and the chinese had it best constructed with their chariots, just an ancient cart would not have to have such a more precise balance since speed was not the game, just transport of goods, family, the wounded and the smaller constructions. It also seems strange why ancient man may have Not used the horse, camel or ox so as to help drag/haul heavy things for them/with them. where is first evidence of that ???
The most compelling reason why the matter of Bob Heironimous and Phillip Morris was not noted is that in the two critical texts cited “Daegling’s “Bigfoot Exposed” and Loxton and Prothero’s “Abominable Science”, both of these clearly skeptical texts did not recognize Bob Heironimous and Phillip Morris as presenting claims of sufficient merit to be factored into those author’s analysis. Even though all authors were aware of the claims, they did not use the claims to establish a proof of hoax. So if skeptical authors and researchers cannot be confident the Heironimous and Morris are making truthful and reliable claims, then I felt that any mention of them would have required a lengthy disclosure of the issues which cast doubt on their credibility. If one were to advocate those claims by Heironimous and Morris as being truthful and factual, the claims would need to be analyzed with the same discipline and logic as all other evidence should be, and under that kind of analysis, the claims have not proven to be strong enough to be taken as fact, even by many skeptical analysists.
That photo showing the burial dig, what is that at bottom right ? a round hole, that a drain tube ? it is hard to see just what I am looking at of whole picture. also that ring with the gem on top, i have one exactly like it just my stone is smaller and, i made it myself :)
Are we missing a picture? (Indigenous guide, Pidru, explains the uses of some of the plants in the Amazon jungle of Ecuador. Credit: April Holloway)
Incredible :) Love ancient ruins, But do wonder if apollo's already ancient temple was intact for Paul to see it whole..? any proof ? yet the romans would want it kept intact ? since they never lost faith in the sun to do what it did, still does today :) I guess apollo was an alien, as depicted in ST episode 'who mourns for Adonius'. it is also a wonder where Paul is buried and how he would be marked to show it is him..?
just, what if those, aliens, decided to return ? hmmm
You wrote that closest living relatives are chimpanzees and gorillas. I have heard that bonobos are, with chimpanzees being second.
Is there anything unique in her "collection" that is not readily available for study in other museums? If not, she has doesn't really have things of any great value to the archaeological community. If she does have unusual findings, perhaps she would like to donate those to an institute for further study. The descriptions of her artifacts seem rather uncommon, so chill out on this dear lady's gatherings.
I imagine most would believe that the statements of:
Philip Morris, the man that sold the suit to Patterson
and
Bob Heironimus, the man that wore the suit
provide that kind of proof.
My question would be why was that not addressed in your article?
Where's fantastic treasures are to be found, no matter the risks or potential threats to life and limb, humans will go to every length to find and recover them. Case in point is the OAK ISLAND fiasco airing on the History Channel. Millions of dollars have been spent digging, drilling, diving, metal detecting, researching, theorizng, wondering, where the supposed Pirate, Buckineer,Templar, gold hoard treasure is.So far they very little to show for their efforts.
The fictional character Lady Lara Croft is called a Tomb Raider, of sorts , following in her Archaeologist fathers footsteps. She's a British Goverment SPY, DIPLOMAT, Aventuress, Archaeologist and seeker of rare artifacts that have powerful supernatural powers. Her mission is to locate these first before some rougue agencies out for world domination can get their hands on them. She'll slip into some archaeological dig - and steal what they are looking for. Which is actually common practice around the world if a site isn't guarded and protected around the clock...
Indiana Jones is the male version of Lara Croft - only he is a college proffessor teaching Archaeoological History... and he too is a Diplomat of the College, Government Agent, Aventurer, Treasure Seeker, Tomb Raider, and a rougue with the ladies. Jones has found the The Arc of the Covenant and experienced first hand the Wrath of God and survived! Top that Lara!
Thrilling stuff for Movies. Also bad for actual Archaeologist who have submit for foreign Government Permits telling what it is they are hoping to find, wait for permission, gather the Professional Phd degreed Professorial Achaeologist, Student helpers, Equipment and Supplies,Arrange Travel, and get all the other professional individuals from the hosting nation to monitor their activities. That is a far cry from Tomb Raiding! Of course, if the team discovers something wonderful and it has never been seen before - Great Acolades , Fame and rise in ranks of Archaeology is assured.
This is a completely crazy period. The Minoan empire had collapsed that stifled piracy, goods flowed, it all stopped with the thera erruption, the Mycaneans invaded, there was a global food crisis, every culture was clamping for anything they could get (the Sea Peoples raided any port to get anything of wealth). The Myceaneans knew very little about long-distance trade and logistics, sorry they didn't. The Phoenician did that learned this from Minoans and eventually resumed trade after the passage of the sea peoples. Mercenaries were contracted in to fight for the invader or the defender, the whole of lands around the med was at war, scrambling around for any metal they could take because the trade network and supply of tin had collapsed, that drove the Bronze age economy, in the same way as Oil drove the 20 century economy.
Is the author referring to the British Museum of TODAY or one of a century ago. I think if you look at all States at this time they all peddled their own propaganda.
The British Museum of today is extremely respectful of other cultures and does a fantastic job of preserving these treasured items, it is also balanced in its approach it frequently loans artefacts to Museums in the country of origin. Also, bear in mind that a lot of people visit London from all around the world, it is an excellent way to share in human achievement with everyone, it is entirely open, there isn't even a fee to visit any British public Museums, it could not be more open and exclusive.
If anything the British Museum doesn't impose their expertise and insight when description artefacts enough, it so factual and politically correct. You are referring to long gone days of empire. We as accept this, it is part of our historical culture but assuming we still think this way today is entirely incorrect, we welcome the diversity of the world and wish to enjoy it. A Brit.
This is pagan thought practised by Druids in Britain. They didn't write anything down!
However, their practices do oddly seem to have parallels with other cultures around the med. This makes a little more sense in this context. They had Apollo (the spear of light at summer solstice), I guess this is your green man. They also had a mother goddess (winter solstice). A fertility goddess (Aphrodite - birth of the day, east - spring equinox of equal day and night) and a goddess of the underworld/night (Artemis-mistress of animals - virgin, Athene type - representing night and autumn equinox - equal day and night).
It's a clever unified system as you can use these to represent cardinal direction, Seasons, day and night and length of the same, all together. Apollo south, mid-day (brightest light) and zenith at summer solstice. Mother goddess North, winter equinox shortest day. BTW this is also the main axis, the serpents refer to the Star constellations of Draco used to find the pole star and the serpent on the equator plane. Collectively, it all made sense.
April, not likely. The Egyptians had very little experience of sea navigation. The Minoans did, the Phoenicians did. Both traded with Egypt. Egyptian knowledge of Minoans was very limited, the Kaftui visited them to trade goods, they were known as coming from the islands they didn't have a clue where they were, it was an asymmetrical sea trade. The Minoan trade network was vast, it extended at least to Spain, but probably to Britanny/Britain for tin, that they needed to make bronze. Egyptian expeditions went anticlockwise around the med with the natural currents (you gain about 2 knots speed if you do, being in mind that under oar you can only go about 4-5 knots and losing 2knots if you have to row against a current is a big deal), across the pillars of Hercules to Africa along this coast then on the Egypt, up to Phoenician ports, then cypress and back to Crete. You pick up all this stuff on route.
I seem to remember reading that the land of punt was Madagascer, this would have been from the spanish port around the african coast, any trade goods could then be made available to other ports in the med through this node.
The one eye could be referring to workers of founderies of metal. They would wear a leather protective eye patch so if there was an accident, they did lose sight in the other eye. They were associated with building, there are even types recorded, copier (mould maker for last wax casting) , metalworker and woodworker, that could also produce what was needed to support building projects Its a class of skilled workers. Look at all the sources of the myth, Crete, Cyprus (copper), Malta (way port for Spainish tin). They are all part of the Minoan trade network, that specialised in metal work amongst other arts and engineering.
To those who have commented thus far, I thank you for your thoughts. But if this film is a hoax, I would like to see a proof, based on an examination of the eveidence, (actually described correctly) the method of analysis used, and the exact conclusion derived from that specific evidence. Also, I’d like to have the author of that proof give his/her name, credentials,etc.
I don’t think that’s too much to ask, but I’ve been waiting 50 years to read that proof, and so far, it doesn’t exist. So I question why.
Bill
Enjoyed reading this article. Info on feasibility:
1. Construction: a hand glider could have been built with materials and construction methods known at this time, within twice the all up weight of a modern-day hand glider (e.g. technical viable).
Icarus is credited with inventing the sail. Flax linen was imported from Egypt by Minos/Crete, they had the best spinners and weavers in the world and exported fine cloth (take a look at the quality and complexity of lady’s fashion garments). Early 20th century aircraft used aero-linen, it has a similar tensile strength to weight ratio as e-glass used in composites, today.
A linen sailcloth could be protected from seawater using wax to improve longevity and performance, that may be the underlying story.
If I had to build a glider from natural materials only, I'd use thick bamboo as tubing for a simple delta wing airframe with aero linen skin, a pilot shifting their weight for control authority, keep it simple.
Giant reeds (similar to bamboo) grow around the Med, used for flute making from 3000 BCE. Bundles of intertwined wicker (used in Minoan/Carian figure of eight shields) would also work. Natural materials are excellent and light.
By example Minoan furniture construction was as good as Chippendale with similarly exacting joinery (Thira tripod table, Egyptian folding beds accredited to Daedalus), that may have employed steaming for shaping (steam rooms in Palaces of Minoan construction recorded in the literature, they may have been used for pleasure and possible for a practical purpose also to shape wood). Constructing water-tight ship hulls with reinforced stitching and pitch (reduced tar from tree sap resin) known. They had all the technical skills and materials to hand to build a basic very lightweight hand glider from natural materials. The question is did they have a design?
2. Design: a) consider Sir George Cayley governable parachute, undertook from a standing start. He got most things right from educated guesses (1802 design) and in later life re-engaging with the topic and demonstrating the idea in practice, steady level flight (in this case). Cayley was wealthy, but did not have access to Minoan Palace workshops or yards! By pursuing this goal he also reinvents the wheel to keep weight down, the spoke tension wheel from twine. To demonstrate gliding flight you don’t need something this sophisticated: spoked wheels, gondola, tail stabilisers/control surfaces and all ! Minoan craftspeople could have built this airframe easily incidentally. The chambered (lifting) wing is apparent if you try to drape a taught cloth over a frame and apply an angle of attack (through weight shift) increasing lift (more distance forwards with a reduced sink rate) at lose of airspeed, you find an equilibrium. You do not need a sophisticated design for basic flight. Gliding is the art of balance, weight shift gives control. It is how all the early pioneers achieved control in flight.
b) You don’t go from an idea to flight straight away, you build models and see what works out in practice. As McCready said, ‘there is nothing wrong with models’. You can build them quickly and show it to a war chief. Support is offered from the State if it works or is interesting, once you have a viable flight concept or design IN-HAND, take my word for it.
If you look there are working examples of a fixed-wing gliders based upon the bird found in Egyptian tombs. Whatever your model demonstrates you can then consider scaling it up, the unknown, and risk your life and limb! You don’t jump off a cliff straight away! You start on the side of a gentle hill, a little glide, tweak. Once you gain confidence, you then undertake longer runs from ever increased gradients, you learn basic control of the aircraft. What would be unexpected is taking off into the sun, you enjoy both lea lift (wind rolling over the peak/hill) and rising columns of air (thermals)!
c). Oral and written accounts.
i) Chinese: Basic planforms for flight surfaces possibly described, known to the adepts, suggest an awareness of landscape from altitude and long distance travel by gliding flight.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo-copter
Later attempts by the state to reproduce this are not much more than the forced attachment of prisons to Kites (execution).
ii) Abbas ibn Firnas, Moorish Polymath from Spain, C. 850 AD. Oral accounts: controlled flight on the second attempt.
iii) Elmer of Malmesbury - the flying monk, ‘Lightening' shot from Dyson design centre. Picking up the original story, the stained glass window would suggest a bat like wing design. In any event, one in three ‘sink ratio’: poor. I don’t think the abbot had much to do with curtailing the technical demonstration. Further, the pilot reports tail control needed after jumping off the abbey tower, result: broken legs, useful experience and historical flight data; from eyewitnesses accounts, the glide distance a furlong, the tower height known.
My interpretation is that an unsupported wing was employed, bad idea! A dihedral ‘v’ wing from front elevation will quickly follow, the arm cannot easily support the wing loading (half your weight on each arm outstretched, for much beyond a minute). A fixed wing is needed, building an unsupported wing mounted to arms will quickly show that this is unlikely to yield good results. There will be a need to sweep back your wings to balance your weight upon air also (tail stabilisers recorded, as being required for this configuration). You quickly understand flight when you see what happens in practice, best to start with models until you do.
Elmer was inspired by the historical literature that attempted to understand the account of Daedalus. It relied upon the ancient oral account passed sown over many generations and getting more hazy with each, a lack of understanding of flight physics and the artists interpretation of the event, basically; birds have wings and fly, therefore Daedalus and Icarus must have used feathered wings to fly. Question: did a Minoan ship look like a whale to move bulks or precious things over the ocean? They used the bits they needed: a hull, human-powered oars/paddles to go places rather than a flipper.
3 Human Powered Flight. Bird muscle around the wing (75%), leg muscles weak even for hunting birds, like Owls (use locking talons to grip pray), eagles or hawks. Human strength is in the leg. Leonardo did show this in initial designs, reporting limited flight success upon the lake, pilot (one of his entourage) injured. An Olympic cyclist produces around 350 watts of work (basically the power of a battery powered drill). When you consider this must lift the airframe and body weight before making progress forward, humans by themselves are not going to get places quickly in flight under their own power, the surplus power forwards after lifting weight is walking speed (you need a tail wind if you want to go faster). McCready son peddled hard to get across the channel.
4. Daedalus flight comments. A) could be referring to the sail. B) Some accounts say flight northeast, not west over huge 500km+ distances over the sea, the later only viable by sail in my opinion. A glider is reliant upon thermals to obtain altitude, from a sun lite hillside. There are not any significant thermals at sea, it is substantially flat. Before anyone comments, you do get some lea lift from wind waves derived from land mass. The glide ratio for a modern-day sailplane is around 60:1 (horizontal distance traversed to sink rate), for a basic trainer glider 30:1 and these are good aerodynamic airframes with high aspect ratio wings. I’m guessing but for a hand glider maybe 10.1. The nearest island north of Crete is 100kms away. You need 10kms of altitude to go anywhere in still winds (at this altitude you need oxygen, did Icarus become unconscious). For an experimental airframe, it is more likely the pilot lost control, for example, the aircraft going nose down and could not be recovered by weight shift (you need to keep weight as low as possible for a design that will natural recover when buffeted). There are smaller islands 25-40kms to east or west of Crete that could be used for island hopping, realising altitude before gliding to the next (2.5 - 4 kms altitude is manageable without oxygen). Tailwinds could be used to go further. It is also worth noting where Icarus had a mishap, Ikaria, they could have been heading for Troy! If Daedalus and Icarus wanted to travel, Minos would not want to lose two of the Palaces master craftsman to a trading rival and may explain the context of the story. Also, wind direction in the Cyclades is very sessional, it should be possible to approximate the month/season then they attempted long distance flight.
5. Daedalus could be a position in society, there are simply too many inventions, art and engineering projects for a single person to complete in a lifetime and in the case of Palaces built on the mainland and art at completely different times. Also consider that an object crafted by the master was worth much more than one that was not. The consistent quality of Minoan artefacts and understanding of science and practical engineering suggests a learned society or at least an apprentice programme in Palace workshops, more probably both.
Notes: as is emerging, Minos had the basic building blocks in place that were accredited to Greece, Roman and British empire millennium later (science, technology, engineering, art and mathematics) but at a lower manufacturing readiness/widespread adoption, but in other respects were arguably better. By example: Communal sewers, hot and cold running water to buildings, hypocaust, aqueducts, roads, instruments of contract/global exchange/trade, central banking and a planned economy, MINT quality engraving, moveable type, architecture that managed light, air, heat and fluids, etc, all demonstrated, C.2000BCE. The state of the ART, all the best ideas and commodities moved through their trading network: trigonometry/geometry/mathematics, metrology, astronomy, metallurgy (the money of it’s time) and construction materials that they converted into high-value trade goods, anything that came on their radar that was of interest, they sent an embassy/ship to investigate and secure knowledge and supply. In many respects, the Minoan empire was comparable to the technical achievements of Britain in 1800 AD when Cayley came up with the idea! This society was also top of its game in every respect. Oddly Minoan DNA has British DNA origin, you can’t produce bronze without tin which we had in abundance.
Minoans had the technical skill to build a basic glider and importantly an inquisitive mindset. Anyone that can work out how to thread a shell using an ant and honey (genius) would be able to build a basic aircraft. Not sure? Well I have no formal training in aerodynamics and have built and demonstrated a new class of aircraft. I did the same thing, ask the warchief for the resource and you can get it up in the air, this would take about 3 years to build from a standing start possible less if you had unfettered access to Palace workshops. My gut feeling is they build it, how successful it was is anyone’s guess, a leg from Crete to Thera is tricky, you’d need a good tailwind, I’d go East first! Someone could have a go…. It would be a great prize challenge for the Royal Aeronautical Society (RAeS) human flight group to issue! Crete to Troy using natural materials available to the Minoans. Then we’d know…. My money is with the aircraft builders.
The administrators of the site have my permission to post this as an article if they have the inclination, just credit the source.
PS The winged feet reference may be referring to stabilisers the flying monk needed. Thinking a little more about this, it suggests a more complex design and I would go with a fixed elliptical (in plan) wing made from wicker, technically a good shape and easy to make. I’d create a X support (in plan view) below for the pilot, mounting to the leading to trailing edge of the wing, U in side or front view. All the rigid frame structures I’d use wicker (forgiving on ground impact – used in balloons baskets that have to absorb a lot of impact energy). An aero linen skin over the wings, that I’d staple stitch at the leading and trailing edges of the wicker frame. Incidentally, this is exactly how they constructed lightweight full body length shields! They will have studied bird wings and noted they were chambered, a few hand launch models and you have a good profile, a basic lifting aerofoil. Wicker chambered rib bracers could be employed from leading to trailing edge of the wing without adding much weight – you’ve already got a better airframe than Cayley, easier to construct too! The wing needs to be pretty big, without doing the calculations, I’d hazard a guess of 1.2m chord length by 6m span. You could use a strap from the trailing edge of the wing to support the pilot at their waist/possibly upper leg, they move about the X frame, the Centre of gravity is directly below the wing which is exactly where you want it. At this size you’d need to extend the mounting position of tail stabilisers backwards beyond the foot. Your article suggests to me they used paddles extended beyond the foot, a wooden pole strapped to the leg with a wicker loop either side of each foot and skinned in linen (flat plate). This configuration is good as you can use both weight shift with foot paddles as control surfaces (actually just like a bird). I’d upgrade the minimum glide angle to 20:1 for this configuration possible more if you increased the wingspan. This configuration doesn’t allow you to run down a hill for launch, you’d probably need a ground crew or a wheeled trolley (lots of examples of this in Minoan artefacts, it is no more complex than a kids cart and rolls down the hill to give you speed to lift into the air). Skid landing would be a bit hairy, the wicker would held but I’d ditch in the sea near to a beach. BTW Leonardo did leave some notes that suggested he build a glider and launched it from a hill, ditching on a lake. He also produced hand launch models of the helicopter, aerial screw, seen over the Vatican wall when he was completing a commission, the section at the bottom of the drawing is the release mechanism it was copied from Chinese bamboo spinner blade toys.
The wicker is definitely the best option, you need something resilient when undertaking initial airwork or this will take you much longer to develop experimentally, having to rebuild wings would set you back a month or two. Someone needs to give this a try.
Also, the association between Priestess and axe and square is interesting. Axes are long distance signalling devices and angular measurement tools (the smaller ones used for navigation). The square is associated with architects as in [System] Architect (builder). The priestess were keepers of knowledge (mostly astronomy, practitioners of Pythagorean mathematics to predict the position of celestial bodies and stars, the axe gives you accurate positioning of the sun from the shadow and reflection without having to look directly into the sun) possibly teachers. They worked at peak sanctuaries, studying the stars at night and I suspect monitoring the shipping lanes in the day (which they had a commanding view over, there are peak sanctuaries at west, east and central Crete, there is line of sight between them and across the entire island – around 100kms to the horizon for monitoring coast approaches too), they could use the big axe mirrors to signal the fleet to intercept ships of the wrong sail/colour and secure their cargo (they completely dominated trade in the region). Sorry for long post, but your article is thought-provoking and this is an interesting topic, well written too. It now makes much more sense why the messengers like Hermes had winged feet (stabilisers: a Minoan state secret?). The priestesses had line of sight to other peak sanctuaries on other islands – huge distances (there is also iconography showing runners actually running down hills to delivering messages to administration centres – Palaces, actually there are even symbols in the Cretan Hieroglyphics for this), it’s a patchy network, you don’t have line of sight to all islands and this is limited to only some islands in the Cyclades group, the trade network is much bigger and if you want to send messages the glider described is much faster than a ship (about 10 times so, possible more with a good tail wind)! This might explain the iconography you describe. You would not want this technology to get in to the hands of a competitor, it would be a state secret but you could not stop others from observing this in flight and once they did it is such a huge thing it is no surprise that it was passed down in oral history. It does explain why Minos did not want Daedalus going to Troy.
The article states that water clocks had to be adjusted as the length of the day changed. Since Modern time keeping ignores the length of the day, doesn't that imply that in ancient times the length of an hour varied throughout the year so there would always be 12 hours (or 12 parts) of day light and 12 hours of night?
I wonder if the hole indicates that something was removed (carefully). Perhaps Apollo was giving Artemis a gift
I don’t think the Cyclops were Canaanites though there is the possibility that they were Nephilim (descendants of fallen angels and humans). I read the Bible daily but there is much that was left out, probably because what they were talking about was common knowledge that is now lost. Hopefully, more research will be done and more facts come to light
This is amazing yet so sad. I hope they are able to preserve their way of life. I am sure there are people in the world somewhere who would love the opportunity to study with a shaman! Perhaps they could recruit from the outside :)
This makes me think of all the vast knowledge that has been lost already due to men killing off, conquering, or influencing whole cultures.
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